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essay16-Jun-2006opinionultamate by votes55958.0%

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What are your thoughts on mail order brides?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail-order_bride#Marr...
Why do you think a man would choose this service?
Why would a woman marry a man she's (in some cases) never seen and move to a strange place?
What are the benefits and down falls for both parties involved?
What kind of positive and /or negative affects dose this have on US or Canada's economy if any?
Should this even be allowed, why or why not?

 


UserComment
eloradanan
posted 16-Jun-2006 11:22pm  
1) I don't have any
2) I don't know
3) I don't know
4) I don't know
5) I don't know
6) I don't know
cloudhugger
posted 16-Jun-2006 11:57pm  
I have met a few fellos that ordered themselves a bride. they are generally lonely, hard working in small rural areas with little outside associations, They seem to be happy with their decisions, so I see nothing wrong. I know only happy endings, but I'm sure there are many that are not
romkey Survey Central Gold Subscriber
posted 17-Jun-2006 12:29am  
They're tacky.

I think people who "order" mail-order brides are more concerned about the idea of marriage and not the reality of it. They're really missed the point.
cabinfever
posted 17-Jun-2006 1:59am  
For some women in a country where women do not have the freedom like we do here, or are even held as worthless property, than I can see where desperation might lead them to take this step. It's sad, but what else are they going to do? Go into prostitution, get AIDS, and die a long, horrible death? Be forced to be some man's third wife and get beaten for her trouble? Be raped repeatedly and have no justice for it? Get pregnant, have a daughter who could be sexually mutilated or sold? We sit in the lap of luxury compared to most of the world, and I cannot pass judgment on a desperate woman trying to do whatever she has to do to get to a better place.

Now, the men 'ordering' these brides is a different story. Most don't want to bother taking the time to get to know a woman, or they want one that will be subservient. Not one of those men is doing this to help a woman better herself.
CarolL
posted 17-Jun-2006 3:28am  
Oh, what an essay this could be.
Are we doing your homework, by chance?
If so, then f-off.
ROCKMAN
posted 17-Jun-2006 10:55am  
Way to many questions!
I don't care for it because I think it's just a way for these women to get out of their countries.
Oscar
posted 17-Jun-2006 11:17am  
I saw a movie called "Mail Order Bride". It was a documentary. Fricken hilarious!
LJD
posted 17-Jun-2006 11:34am  
I personally think if a man has to go the extent of ordering a mail order bride...there is a deep sense of being desperate. I think because of the women's lib movement (communist inspired) men feel they need to find someone out of the country that believes in traditional values and are submissive. Men are innately supposed to be the leaders, the protectors, headships of their homes, but have been upstaged, so to speak, by some misguided women. I believe in men and women roles...this is how God designed us. Both my sons have said because of what women have become in this country, they would opt for women outside this country....but of course within their race....I've told them there are many good women in this country....just have to search. They're good men, loyal...like traditional values, do not degrade women in any way.

I think it can be disastrous to marry a person outside the country or out of their race.

I know a man that went to China, found a woman, but she has become "Americanized" since. The marriage was of convenience. I don't see a real bonding between them.

I knew another man that married a German girl while in the military. He said she was a good wife, and loved her, but she cried to go back home...missed her homeland. They had one son. When the boy was three years old, she wanted a divorce because my friend didn't want to leave the states. She had to leave the son with his father. My friend then received a heartfelt letter from his former father-in-law, begging him to send the boy to Germany, to be raised by his mother, and in their homeland. My friend said he made the hardest decision he ever had to in his life. He sent his 3 year old son to his mother, was raised in Germany, and he kept in contact with the son. The son grew up to be a medical doctor. Father and son have a good relationship. I know my friend was hurt, had to miss the boy and his raising.
Enheduanna Survey Central Subscriber
posted 17-Jun-2006 12:47pm  
I don't really have any. If both parties are willing, then it seems fine. I certainly wouldn't want to do it myself.
ultamate
(reply to LJD) posted 17-Jun-2006 1:07pm  
> I personally think if a man has to go the extent
> of ordering a mail order bride...there is a deep
> sense of being desperate. I think because of
> the women's lib movement (communist inspired)
> men feel they need to find someone out of the
> country that believes in traditional values and
> are submissive.
For once we agree on something. Submissive is the key word. The men are just looking to find a woman he can rule over. Love has nothing to do with it.


> Men are innately supposed to
> be the leaders, the protectors, headships of their
> homes, but have been upstaged, so to speak,
Believe it or not I don't have a problem with that statement. It's a personal choose for a woman to live under a man if she likes. What I do have a problem with is if men were going to take on that role then they shouldn't expect a woman to work out side the home and have to help him do what is his "job" to do; support his family. You're a king of nothing if you can't feed your people.


> by some misguided women.
Again we disagree. I can make decisions for myself; I can make a living with out a man doing it for me. When I'm with a man I demand respect as a woman and I get it. In reture I treat him like he is a king and he knows it. Slaves don't get respect and that is all you are to your husband. If your husband died tomorrow you wouldn't know what to do with yourself because you are weak minded. I may be misguided (if you can be by experience) but I prefer that over a weak minded slave.


> I believe in men and women
> roles...this is how God designed us.
God did not design woman to be mindless and disrespected by the man who is suppose to love us.


Whose got you brain washed, your man or your religion?
ultamate
(reply to ROCKMAN) posted 17-Jun-2006 1:10pm  
I didn't really want you to answer all those questions I just wanted you to think on those terms.
ultamate
(reply to cabinfever) posted 17-Jun-2006 1:35pm  
I worked with a woman who married an American man she hardly knew so she could get here from the Philippines. She said he was verbally abusive to her, had beaten her a few times and forced himself on her. I don't remember how long she said they were married but when he finished with her he dropped her off in a parking lot with nothing. Luckily for her she had a friend who she stayed with. But she said there were times before she met her new (at the time) husband where she prostituted herself out just to eat. I agree with you about the reasons a woman would do it, but even so I think it's stupid for those who marry a guy she's never even seen. The part about the men, I totally agree with you.
ultamate
(reply to eloradanan) posted 17-Jun-2006 1:44pm  
To the right there is a button that says, "hide". Check the box then push "hide" see what happens. smiley:::wink
gambler
posted 17-Jun-2006 2:31pm  
No thing wrong with it.............. but I couldn't do it
cabinfever
(reply to ultamate) posted 17-Jun-2006 5:30pm  
It may be 'stupid' from our standpoint for a woman to marry a man she's barely or never met, but desperation has a way of making you.... desperate. This woman you worked with... if they were really married, I hope she got something out of the divorce, other than a green card.
Iseult
posted 17-Jun-2006 5:30pm  
What's wrong with the women already living in your country?
Iseult
(reply to romkey) posted 17-Jun-2006 5:31pm  
What's the point?
ultamate
(reply to cabinfever) posted 17-Jun-2006 6:25pm  
She never said, but she did end up marry an Asian man from the US.
LJD
(reply to ultamate) posted 17-Jun-2006 6:30pm  
I don't know why women have such an issue about the word submissive. I have no problem being submissive to a good man. Being submissive means a man has big responsibilities. It does not mean a man rules over a woman. It means allowing him to be the breadwinner, being the head disciplinarian of the children, sharing or taking care of finances...the list goes on. Trust me, I would have gladly bowed to these responsibilities...let him take over.

I believe men want to be the sole breadwinner, but in today's economy, world, he needs help....a woman should go out and supplement the household expenses. Man and woman are partners, they should help each other. NOW, at the same time, if a wife goes into the outside work force, it is a man's responsibility to help with some home chores, especially if he is wanting some attention behind bedroom doors. A woman can't be everything... work, be a wife and mother and do a good job...too overwhelming. Yes, a man is the Provider, the Protector, but the way this system of things is today, it would almost kill the average man to be sole provider...and what kind of a companion/lover would he be, if he was so worn out couldn't function from overwork? I would be happy to give up any luxury to have a healthy husband. Both husband and wife should be looking out for the other.

Depending on the circumstances...if there are children involved, sometimes people have to suck it in. By being submissive, does not mean you are a slave. Of course a man should respect you, and visa versa. Believe me, I could make it on my own if my husband passed before me...I've always had to be the decisive one in this marriage, I'm the brains, he's the brawn in this family so my husband says. I've always wanted a man to be the headship, but never had it here. I was the disciplinarian of the children, I'm the one that took care of all the financial matters, I'm the one that did the cooking, cleaning, and worked part time to help supplement the income. Trust me, I could make it on my own. I am not weak minded, I just try to use common sense. You may think I'm one that stood by and let my husband trample me...believe me when I say that is not the case...I'm a fighter when need be, my husband can attest to that, I can hold my own. My thought is it is the responsibility of a parent to give their children the best chance in life, if it means staying in a loveless marriage, so be it.

I am who I am because of my faith, life experience, and my beloved children and now my grandchildren.

ultamate
(reply to Iseult) posted 17-Jun-2006 6:53pm  
In my opinion these men want woman they can make into their slaves. I would think it is hard to find American or Canadian woman willing to be a slave.
Iseult
(reply to ultamate) posted 17-Jun-2006 7:07pm  
Bah. These women usually don't speak English, and people who don't speak English piss me. Nothing personal, just makes it hell of a lot harder to communicate.

Ps. I like American & Canadian women, even thought they can get dogy sometimes.
ultamate
(reply to LJD) posted 17-Jun-2006 7:30pm  
Yeah my daddy did all that when I was a child, but he raised me to be an adult not another mans child. Men should help when the woman works out side the home but few men help with anything around the house and some don't even help with their own kids. As I recall you said yourself that your husband said he wasn't going to be a baby sitter, even when it was his own kids. What kind of companion/lover is a woman who works 8 to 10 hours a day to come home and cook, clean, and take care of kids while he sits on his lazy ass and dose nothing after he gets off work? In a perfect world the man and woman would look out for each other but a lot of men make it impossible for the woman when all he's looking after is his own needs. In passed comments you have made it sound as though your husband contributed nothing more than babies and money. That doesn't sound like love to me. And that you were willing to live like that does not impress me. You are brain washed is what you are.

ausfox
posted 17-Jun-2006 7:33pm  
I don't really have an opinion on this
ultamate
(reply to Iseult) posted 17-Jun-2006 7:49pm  
I know a guy who just married a woman from the Philippines (mail order bride). She speaks only a small amount of English. This surprises me because he clams they been talking over the internet for 5 months. Anyway I guess when it comes to sex and cleaning the house she really doesn't need to speak English.
I don't care what anyone says, when I'm dogy I have a good reason for it (most of the time). I'm always nice enough to worn people that I'm in a dogy mood too. I warned a co-worker just the other day. It's just a matter if they're smart enough to heed my warning and stay the hell away from me.
cloudhugger
(reply to LJD) posted 17-Jun-2006 10:00pm  
> I don't know why women have such an issue about
> the word submissive. I have no problem being
> submissive to a good man. Being submissive means
> a man has big responsibilities. It does not mean
> a man rules over a woman. It means allowing him
> to be the breadwinner, being the head disciplinarian
> of the children, sharing or taking care of finances...the
> list goes on. Trust me, I would have gladly
> bowed to these responsibilities...let him take over.
>
>
> I believe men want to be the sole breadwinner,
> but in today's economy, world, he needs help....a
> woman should go out and supplement the household
> expenses. Man and woman are partners, they should
> help each other. NOW, at the same time, if a
> wife goes into the outside work force, it is a
> man's responsibility to help with some home chores,
> especially if he is wanting some attention behind
> bedroom doors. A woman can't be everything... work,
> be a wife and mother and do a good job...too overwhelming.
> Yes, a man is the Provider, the Protector, but
> the way this system of things is today, it would
> almost kill the average man to be sole provider...and
> what kind of a companion/lover would he be, if
> he was so worn out couldn't function from overwork?
> I would be happy to give up any luxury to have
> a healthy husband. Both husband and wife should
> be looking out for the other.
>
> Depending on the circumstances...if there are children
> involved, sometimes people have to suck it in.
> By being submissive, does not mean you are a
> slave. Of course a man should respect you, and
> visa versa. Believe me, I could make it on my
> own if my husband passed before me...I've always
> had to be the decisive one in this marriage, I'm
> the brains, he's the brawn in this family so my
> husband says. I've always wanted a man to be
> the headship, but never had it here. I was the
> disciplinarian of the children, I'm the one that
> took care of all the financial matters, I'm the
> one that did the cooking, cleaning, and worked
> part time to help supplement the income. Trust
> me, I could make it on my own. I am not weak
> minded, I just try to use common sense. You
> may think I'm one that stood by and let my husband
> trample me...believe me when I say that is not the
> case...I'm a fighter when need be, my husband can
> attest to that, I can hold my own. My thought
> is it is the responsibility of a parent to give
> their children the best chance in life, if it
> means staying in a loveless marriage, so be it.
>
>
> I am who I am because of my faith, life experience,
> and my beloved children and now my grandchildren.
>
>
>

*cough cough*
RGirl
posted 17-Jun-2006 10:09pm  
I think men who are shy, older or not attractive would use this service. I also think men who are looking for a submissive woman or specific type, like asian, of woman.

Women who any improvement in their life would be great. Also, women who are only looking to become a citizen then dump the poor guy. They think they will have a lot of money and things.

Some one is getting used. Is bought happiness really happiness?

I don't think it has a big affect on the economy.

As long as prostitution is illegal so should this.

cabinfever
(reply to ultamate) posted 17-Jun-2006 11:25pm  
I hope she is happy. And after having to prostitute herself, I hope she is 'clean' and healthy.
cabinfever
(reply to ultamate) posted 17-Jun-2006 11:36pm  
From dictionary.com:

submissive

adj 1: inclined or willing to submit to orders or wishes of others or showing such inclination; "submissive servants"; "a submissive reply"; "replacing troublemakers with more submissive people" [antonym: domineering] 2: willing to submit without resistance to authority; deferent 3: abjectly submissive; characteristic of a slave or servant; "slavish devotion to her job ruled her life"; "a slavish yes-man to the party bosses"- S.H.Adams; "she has become submissive and subservient" [syn: slavish, subservient]


Maybe you and LJD should re-discuss the 'submissive' angle. Sounds like she needs a good dictionary. I, for one, will not just submit to any man as an authority figure.
LJD
(reply to ultamate) posted 18-Jun-2006 1:08am  
I absolutely, totally agree with you, a man should help if the wife works outside the home. Unfortunately, my husband NEVER lifted a finger to help me with the house or the children. My husband has a sadist/passive-aggressive personality...as diagnosed by my therapist. So, just because he was the way he was, doesn't mean I should lay down on the job...not when you have children. All the time, when raising the children, I felt alone. Sure I was bitter, still am to a point, because of the struggle. He often said to me "well I didn't ask you to go to work"....but because I took care of the finances, I knew I had to go to work to supplement. I must say he gave me his check most of the time, and occasional side job money. He never complained about my caring for the finances, knew I wasn't a spendthrift...have always been frugal.

I understand how you feel about some men that are more like children than husbands. Believe me I understand. I've always felt like I raised five children instead of the four I birthed. As an example once, while I was working full time, when all the children were little, (my mom babysat) I had invited both our parents for dinner on a Friday night. I asked him to help me with the children, and help with dinner. I asked if he could please go to the store, as I needed some particular item for the dinner, and he said "well, I guess you should have planned a little better, he refused to go for me, and he also said, no I will not help, you planned the dinner party, so you take care of it". Those were his words. The dinner party turned out fine, but I felt sick by the end of the evening. He sat in his easy chair, never lifted a finger.

I don't expect you to be impressed by my behavior, nor wanting sympathy, just telling you how I feel. For my children I will do almost anything. Because of his behavior over the years, I knew my husband didn't know how to love, or at least my definition of love, because of the way he was raised, and his being burned in his first marriage....consequently I fell out of love with my husband many years ago. If it weren't for my children, I'd have left him shortly after we were married...but got pregnant immediately, like within the first week or two with my first son, then after my son was born, about 9 months later, in a drunken stupor, impregnated me with my second son...but I wouldn't trade my sons for anything in the world....they're both wonderful men. Call me a weakling, but I did what I felt was right at the time. Now I do what I want, when I want.

I must say it's nice to get things off your chest sometimes...thanks for listening.


kitti723
posted 18-Jun-2006 1:14am  
good way to get citizenship
LuridHope
posted 18-Jun-2006 3:14am  
just like everything else in this world,
I can't afford one.
ROCKMAN
(reply to ultamate) posted 18-Jun-2006 9:14am  
I really kina figured that.smiley:::smile
I still gave it a good vote because I liked the question
they Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 18-Jun-2006 11:02am  
It should be allowed.

People that aren't hurting anyone should be able to do what they want.
Cain
posted 18-Jun-2006 11:47am  
That's a lot of questions to answer and I'm in a bit of a hurry...........
ultamate
posted 18-Jun-2006 1:09pm  
Ok you're not really being very specific to what you mean by me being "dogy". If you're speaking in reference to my comment on being dogy, everyone even men have bad days. The day I told my co-worker that I was in a dogy mood I was very nice in telling her that and she did understand and seemed to appreciate my honesty about it. I have been having problems with head aches for the last few weeks and that in it's self is good reason (I think) to be a little dogy.
I never said that I felt it was my God given right to be dogy. Basically I said it happens and I do worn people when I am in a bad mood. I would think when a person is in a bad mood it would be best to say," Hey I'm in a bad mood today so give me some space, 'cause I don't want to end up taking it out on you." What's wrong with saying that?
I do treat people with the same respect that they treat me with, but I do have an opinion and I see nothing wrong with me speaking it. If my opinion offends people then they should speak up. I do appreciate that you did speak up but it was not my intent to offend you personally.
Perhaps you are referring to my comments to LJD. Then yes maybe I was being a little dogy with her because she did say 3 things that got to me; "I think because of the women's lib movement (communist inspired)", "submissive", "misguided women." I do believe that all people should have equal rights regardless of their sex, color etc. but to suggest that that associates me with communism highly pisses me off! Submissive is just another word for obedient. For someone to think that as a woman I'm suppose to have a husband who I am to do as he says also pisses me off. As I'm sure I have said before my father raised me and I was obedient to him but I have no desire to be maried to my father. What a waste of his time to have raised me to have my own mind and be independent just to be ruled over by some man who has no more wisdom in life than I do. My husband and I split because I refused to be obedient to him as I would have been to my father. Did I break my marriage vows? No because I told him before I married him that nether of us was over the other and that I would not say the word "obey" in my vows to him, yet he chose to marry me anyway. And then the 'misguided women" statement. The only misguided woman is the one who thinks that her life is worth nothing and she has nothing worth giving but to be a man's slave for life. If my believes as a feminist makes me a dog then so be it. I don't make it a point to please everyone because I know from experience that I will surly fail.
I'm sorry if that offends you or anyone else here, but it's who I am.
ultamate
(reply to ROCKMAN) posted 18-Jun-2006 1:36pm  
Yeah yeah, you just gave it a high rating because I said you're special. smiley:::grin
ultamate
(reply to LJD) posted 18-Jun-2006 2:06pm  
I can't judge you for doing what you thought was right, especially where your kids are concerned. I don't really think you are a weak minded; I just said that because some of your comments pissed me off a little. I'm sorry I said that, I'm sure you are a very strong minded woman. I just don't know how you can stand letting someone who is suppose to love and respect you, even by Bible standers treat you like that.
ElvisFan67
posted 18-Jun-2006 2:16pm  
I'd prefer online dating services--at least it gives you a chance to determine if your partner may eventually be marriage material. smiley:::smile
ultamate
(reply to cabinfever) posted 18-Jun-2006 3:08pm  
No, I think she knows what submissive means. If you go by what the Bible says how a wife should be, then she may be right. I do consider myself a Christian and at one time tried to live by what the Bible teaches. I always struggled with the," man is the head of woman" thing. The Bible also says that a man is to respect his wife. So the Bible tells a man basically that he is superior to her yet tells him to respect her. I find that very confusing and I could see how a man would confuse what it means to respect his wife when he also is lead to believe he is superior over her. Most men do not know how to be both "over" her and respect her too. Unfortunately the superior part usually ends up over ridding the respect. I like the feeling of being with a man who is not afraid to take charge sort of speak. But when he forgets to respect my feelings and free will to choose my own path or treats me like his property, that's where I have a problem. That only proves to me that there is no respect and with out respect there is no love. I would rather be alone than to be with someone who dose not love me.
ultamate
(reply to cabinfever) posted 18-Jun-2006 3:13pm  
She seemed happy. I don't know about now,that was like 10 years ago when I knew her.
Amanda
posted 18-Jun-2006 5:43pm  
I think it's a good way for the woman to get citizenship and a good way for the man to get a servant. But, whatever makes them happy. I have nothing against it, as long as both parties are willing.
Zang
posted 18-Jun-2006 7:14pm  
My initial reaction to this is that I found the wikipedia article interesting in that apparently there was some serious edit wars going on and the article has been protected. Someone with some strong POV was essentially vandalising the article. The talk page is longer than the article.

What the article seems to miss is that this sort of thing has been going on for quite a long time (more than 100 years) and the dynamics have changed over time. As is typical, it focuses on American men as the recipients.

Anyway, let's answer the questions...I think a man would choose this service because he wants to meet and hopefully marry a woman. His experiences trying to do this within his own country aren't getting him anywhere, so he expands his search internationally. Along with this, perhaps he has some idea that foreign women will be more appealing in some way.

These arrangements can appeal to women who have a desire to emigrate and aren't able to do so otherwise. They may find the economic and/or political situation in the host country to be more favourable to their preferences. They might have similar ideas (as the men) about foreign men being more appealing as well.

The benefits are that by expanding the matchmaking pool beyond one's national borders, a larger group of potential partners is available. This increases the likelihood of a good match. The only downfall I can think of would be if the partners rushed to marriage without getting to know each other as well as they should or if they were dishonest in their intentions. For example, the man could be looking for a very submissive woman he could dominate and the woman might not be into that. Or the woman might not be interested in the marriage beyond getting into the host country and becoming a citizen. I don't think either of those things are implicit in the situation though. Any marriage could have the same sort of problems if the parties were dishonest in their intentions; it isn't something that only applies to mail-order brides.

I can't see this as having much of an effect on the economy of Canada. First of all, there isn't nearly enough of it going on to have a noticeable effect. Secondly, it isn't sufficiently different from regular immigration. It's been going on since the days prior to Confederation, so the only thing we could do is speculate what the result would be if it were halted (which is probably impossible). As I said, I really don't think that there is enough of this going on to have a noticeable effect.

I can't think of any good reason to try to legislate an end to this practice and I doubt it could be done anyway.

I don't understand why anyone would oppose this. Unless they had some kind of prejudice about it.
Zang
posted 18-Jun-2006 7:22pm  
Wow! I'm seeing a lot more prejudice in the responses than I would have figured!
RGirl
(reply to ultamate) posted 18-Jun-2006 8:31pm  
What was wrong with her answers?
ultamate
posted 18-Jun-2006 10:38pm  
Not a thing. It just seemed to be a smart ass answer so I gave a smart ass reply.
LindaH
posted 18-Jun-2006 10:53pm  
TETO (To each their own). If it works it works, if it doesn't it doesn't. I can't imagine a marriage where the couple hardly know each other lasting any shorter than the average marriage nowadays anyway.
FitnessGuy
posted 19-Jun-2006 2:08am  
Foreign mail-order brides are synonymous with foreign mail-order chocolates: You don't know how long they've been on the market, what kind of filling they have, or what exactly they're going to do to you once you try them. Worse yet, you'll never see your money ever again, nor have the option of sending them back! BAD MOVE!
ROCKMAN
(reply to ultamate) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:19am  
laughing out loud Hey now, I didn't know it was your survey until I had already typed my answer and voted it good. I really thought about trying to answer each question though. I was just in a hurry at the time.smiley:::smile
ROCKMAN
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:29am  
> Foreign mail-order brides are synonymous
> with foreign mail-order chocolates: You don't
> know how long they've been on the market,
> what kind of filling they have, or what exactly
> they're going to do to you once you try them.
> Worse yet, you'll never see your money ever
> again, nor have the option of sending them
> back! BAD MOVE!

Good answer!
Welcome to SC btw.shake
Jody
posted 19-Jun-2006 11:48am  
I think it's a lifelong commitment predicated on a huge inequality - one person buys, and one is bought. Only a slight step up from slavery.
LJD
(reply to ultamate) posted 19-Jun-2006 12:22pm  
Thank you, I understand Ultamate how you feel. When my husband did what he did, I felt bitter about it, fought him on many occasions, but I knew my being bitter would hurt me, and it has taken it's toll on me.

I thought to myself, do I have a walking mat across my chest, saying step on me?...No, I didn't and don't, the problem is I didn't know how to choose a man, but I do now. I was very na´ve when I was young, but not now. I lived in a fairyland world, I thought all men were good, well mannered. I didn't know what to look for in a man. I think having two sons, and three grandsons (love them dearly) made me have more compassion for men, understanding, because I was bitter against men at one time, I know now there are some very good men, we just don't hear about them.

But, what options did I have? I wanted to remain with my children, raise them myself, didn't want to go on welfare, have my children as wards of the state. I wanted to keep the family intact. No one on the outside knew of my feelings...we look like the normal family. I divorced one man, who was a stinker, and since he has apologized for his behavior while we were married. Then I marry a man that had lots of baggage from childhood, and a bad marriage. I swear I think they should have classes in school on how to wisely choose life mates...LOL

Again, thanks for listening.
gsummers
posted 19-Jun-2006 1:54pm  
I think the whole thing is a bit sad. Women that have to sacrifice true love just to get out of their lives that they obviously abhor..to be with men that are unable or incapable of finding a truthful relationship for themselves...they are mostly just old perverts or just want a wife that is in their turf and quite probably wants them to be subservient to them..no? I could be totally missing the mark on this, if so I do apologize, Ive not known anyone in real life that has 'subscribed' to this type of service so...
cerealkiller
posted 19-Jun-2006 2:57pm  
I'd buy one. Still likely to get a dog, but at least I'd get the right color, body and hair.
ultamate
(reply to ROCKMAN) posted 19-Jun-2006 5:14pm  
well thank you for the good vote. smiley:::smile
ultamate
(reply to LJD) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:01pm  
> I swear I think they should have classes in school on how to wisely choose life mates...LOL

I don't think a class would have done me any good. Being young I would have still followed my heart instead of my common sense.laughing out loud
FitnessGuy
(reply to ROCKMAN) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:07pm  
Thank you very much for the welcoming gesture :) (bowing).
ultamate
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:19pm  
lmao! I love that answer!
ultamate
(reply to gsummers) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:25pm  
If you missed the mark so have I, so at least we're in the same boat.
ultamate
(reply to cerealkiller) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:27pm  
>I'd buy one.

I would have figured you would.
gsummers
(reply to ultamate) posted 19-Jun-2006 6:36pm  
I guess we can count ourselves lucky.. at least we make our own choices whatever bad they may be! Fudge being a mail order, I cant imagine being that hard up.. bless the little things I guess.. Our Country and circumstance could never get that bad.. at least I pray not.
ultamate
(reply to gsummers) posted 19-Jun-2006 8:23pm  
Funny, I've only known (personally) of two mail order brides and both are very attractive. I've seen the pictures on the web site and there are some that are not so attractive. I guess the unattractive ones are last picked. The guy I know now looks like a giant next to his very petite mail order bride. If you see them from behind they look like father and 8or9 year old little girl.
gsummers
(reply to ultamate) posted 19-Jun-2006 8:28pm  
Yikes!!! Better them then me.. I know its bad to say.. but things like that. I count myself lucky... I hope they are happy together though !
LJD
(reply to ultamate) posted 19-Jun-2006 10:03pm  
LOL! You're probably right. Unfortunately, during the teens, where hormones take over, common sense flies out the window. When I met my first husband I saw him on a teen dance television program. He was the life of the show, and can really dance. I thought to myself, and having not ever met him, said to myself, I'd like to marry him. I know that sounds dumb, I guess because I was a silly teen. My exhusband was very handsome, (still is) , had winning ways. My parents didn't like him, and I guess that was even more of a reason I just had to marry him. When I met him he was having alot of family issues, of which I didn't realize were so emotional. He had just found out he was adopted. It's a long story, we were both young, the marriage didn't last, he just couldn't settle down Seven years after we divorced, and I was married to my present husband he came by my house and apologized to me for everything and said had we met when we were a little older, more mature, our marriage could have survived. The man my parents wanted me to marry was four years older, a very handsome German/Hungarian man, he was very mature, and I wasn't. I was only 14 years old when I met him, he was almost 19 years old. He was the real love of my life. Even after divorcing my first husband, he wanted to date me, marry me, adopt my daughters...he was such a good man. I was still young, I guess I felt smothered, which I wasn't, but felt it. I've only dated less than a handful of men in my life. Then I met my present husband...I can kick myself a million times....I wish Joe was still alive, I know if he'd lived we would have ended up with each other. Well that taught me not to listen to my parents..haha, .they knew best all along.
ultamate
(reply to gsummers) posted 19-Jun-2006 10:31pm  
they both do seem happy, for now anyway.
FitnessGuy
posted 19-Jun-2006 11:38pm  
OK.....why is it that they have mail-order brides, but no mail-order grooms. If it ever came down to something like that, all the men in the world would cry foul and have a fit, and all the male politicians would vote it as "unconstitutional!" But treating women like "packages" somehow seems ok. Shows you how chauvinistic and sexist this world is. And as for the women who allow themselves to play the role and be bought off.....they have serious issues with self-esteem, or there are always some ulterior motives. I think women need to stand proud and find a mate on their own, valuable merits without resorting to such a thing. The sexist men who pay for such services are damaging a women's self-worth, because I highly doubt that the relationship would at that point stand on "EQUAL" ground. The man at that point would assume an implied position of superiority, and assume that he is the "DOMINANT" partner, since he BOUGHT her out.

There are match-making sites out there, where potential mates can post profiles from across the seas, and arrange a way to meet without ever turning it into a position of money.
But the biggest demons in all of this are the agencies that profit from the transactions. Shame on them. They'd make CLEANER money if they charged the women for education, offer them job placements after the curriculum, and therefore empower them with a better chance to succeed in life and find a respectable partner of THEIR choosing. They'd build their sense of self-worth.

WE NEED TO EMPOWER WOMEN WHO ARE LESS FORTUNATE, NOT BUY THEM.
RGirl
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 20-Jun-2006 2:18am  
Well, in some countries the woman's plight is so pathetically bad any way out might sound like heaven. I don't think it is an self-esteem issue. I think they have decided the trade off is better than what their society has in store for them.
ROCKMAN
(reply to ultamate) posted 20-Jun-2006 6:05am  
If it's a good survey to me I always give a good vote.smiley:::smile
ROCKMAN
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 20-Jun-2006 6:15am  
No problem!
FitnessGuy
(reply to RGirl) posted 20-Jun-2006 9:44am  
In that case, why don't they set up a program where people can "adopt" a woman, rather than BUY her as a wife. Meaning, kind of like "adopt-a-child", where a person can sponsor her or help support and contribute to her life. My point is, men can offer to help unfortunate women without expecting to OWN them. Whatever happened to being generous without expecting a return?

If the woman being sponsored then decided that she wanted to meet the man that has been helping her, that's one thing. Kind of romantic. But they shouldn't be OBLIGATED to marry them, if they want to receive monetary help. That's how I think it should be.

I remember this one time, I met this 19 year old single girl on a chat on AOL, and she had a newborn baby, and their father left them. I offered to send her grocery money once a week, because they were near starving. That happened every week for a full year. But I never said "Ok...now you will pack your bags and come move with me, so you can be my wife."
In fact, to this, day, I never even met her in person. I never asked to.

Help should have no strings attached.
RGirl
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 20-Jun-2006 5:52pm  
I didn't say it was the right way for things to go, I am only explaining how a woman would go this route and it not be a self esteem issue---->for her. The self esteem issue lies in the man. You're the guy, go talk your fellow gender members and bring up your sponsor program. See how many are interested. If there were a sponsor program available I am sure there would be more takers (women) than signing up as a mail away bride. Also, not all of these women are honest. There is a known risk that she is coming just to manipulate you out of money and citizenship.
FitnessGuy
(reply to RGirl) posted 20-Jun-2006 6:16pm  
> Also, not all of these women are honest. There is
> a known risk that she is coming just to manipulate you out of money
> and citizenship.


Ah, but, has it not been said by wise thinkers long ago.......that we should help people unconditionally, and that it is not for us to decide on who is worthy of the help, and who is not? Of course, the thought came to my mind that she may not be honest, but should my fear of being lied to stop my hand from reaching out to help? If she lied, then God-willing, she needed the money more than me, anyway, honest or not. And that her Higher Power with deal with that situation, not me. Our role as human beings is to be the helpers, not the judges.

I understand that the fault lies more with the man. more so than the women. Did I not say earlier that we live in a male sexist and chauvinistic society? I also said that "men should EMPOWER WOMEN, not BUY THEM?" But I also stated that the real culprits are the agencies
that deal with these transactions. They don't HAVE to resort to the whole business of MAIL-BRIDE, when they could say to the applicant: "look, we see you are desperate at this point, but don't do this to yourself....let us show you a better way....let us educate you, empower you, and get you on your feet without selling you off." But, they do no such thing, do they?

I do agree with you, that for some women, this may seem like a last resort....but that's why the businesses that peddle this sort of thing take for advantage of the situation and exploit those womens' sense of helplessness. They don't have to. They could be better role models.
RGirl
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 20-Jun-2006 6:21pm  
There is a big difference between what should be done and what is done. Your ideas are are idealistic. The reality isn't as sweet. The reality is that men aren't out to empower anyone and the women aren't always desperate & in need of help. Your sponsorship idea is a good one. How do you suggest implementing it? How realistic is it when you look honestly at what makes up the human race?
FitnessGuy
(reply to RGirl) posted 20-Jun-2006 6:39pm  
AHHH HAHH.....you hit the nail on the head. Got me there, didn't you? :) Yes....reality is much different than the ideal situation, isn't it? But if no one even tries, then why even bother learning the difference between JUSTICE and what is WRONG? You're right.....the reality of it looks pretty gloomy, doesn't it? Most men want a tiny, cute little trophy to follow them around......sick as it is......and be in total control of that showpiece. They want to wine them, and 69 them....no doubt. Yep.....you figured us out, didn't you? BUT....what happens, for the few men out there who TRULY want to reach out and give a woman the wings she deserves? If they end up falling in love....ok.....that would be a bonus, right? But he should want her to succeed anyway, even if he doesn't get to be between her legs.

There ARE men out there who see women as equals. And maybe we'll never change the minds of the men who don't. But even if we change the life of ONE woman, then it would have been worth it, right?

As for what I would suggest, well.......what would my suggestions do, if I'm not one of those well-off millionaires who do all the mail-bride ordering? LOL. Hopefully....someone who is associated with this business, who has the money to make a positive difference, will read our surveys and get inspired....no? (wishful thinking?). shrug. :) Thank God that there are husbands out there who have made ONE woman happy, so that they may never know what goes on elsewhere :) Right?
bill Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 21-Jun-2006 8:30am  
Because he's lonely and/or has some personality issue that makes it hard for him to find a mate.
Perhaps, the same reason. But, more likely to improve her standard of living by moving to a richer country.
They don't know each other, so maybe they wont get along very well. But, maybe it would work out since arranged marriages are common in some parts of the world. Who knows.
I don't feel strongly that there are positive or negative affects.
I think it should be allowed. I don't think it's so terrible. I think we should avoid making laws that restrict marriage. I'd rather see the laws go in the other direction.
FitnessGuy
(reply to bill) posted 21-Jun-2006 11:33am  
> Because he's lonely and/or has some personality issue that makes it
> hard for him to find a mate.
> Perhaps, the same reason. But, more likely to improve her standard
> of living by moving to a richer country.


But my main point is, a man can volunteer to improve a woman's standard of living without forcing her into a marriage commitment. It's true, about the LONELY part, that some men have some kind of inherent flaw, maybe even physically unappealing as well, that keeps them from getting a fair chance at a mate. If that's the case, that only shows that women can be just as shallow as men, and just as picky.

I can relate this to a personal experience myself. I am a fairly short guy: 5'6".
I remember that back in high school and college, I had a hard time KEEPING a girlfriend, and every time I asked what their reason was, I kept getting "you're just not tall enough.....I prefer tall men." But I felt that was overly picky, because the girls that were complaining about it were barely 5'3" themselves, on average. How hypocritical.

Of course, by the time they get to be in their 30's, like me, and get a little fatter and some body parts start showing signs of some "SAG".....they stop making anal demands, and grow up a bit.

It does seem that men and women BOTH need growing up in college, not just men. Just in different respects. LOL.

mve17
posted 23-Jun-2006 8:07am  
I think they're proper dodge
ultamate
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 24-Jun-2006 6:11pm  
I like the way you think! Too bad more men are not like you.
ultamate
(reply to FitnessGuy) posted 24-Jun-2006 6:27pm  
> I can relate this to a personal experience
> myself. I am a fairly short guy: 5'6".
> I remember that back in high school and college,
> I had a hard time KEEPING a girlfriend, and every
> time I asked what their reason was, I kept getting
> "you're just not tall enough.....I prefer tall
> men." But I felt that was overly picky, because
> the girls that were complaining about it were
> barely 5'3" themselves, on average. How hypocritical.

Good God, I could see maybe if they were 5'6" or taller them self's! I would have said that ugly birth mark on your butt.laughing out loud
clare
posted 10-Jul-2006 3:13am  
I think most of the women think they are going to come into a better life, but likely it will be the complete opposite for them. I don't think it's something that should be allowed or encouraged.
survey22
posted 11-Jul-2006 2:07pm  
My wife is a mail order bride, but we waited a year to get married after we met. we have been married 22yrs.
starrpickle
posted 13-Jul-2006 11:57am  
how may can i order?
docgbrown
posted 24-Jul-2006 12:39pm  
Surprisingly enough I knew quite a few mail order couples over the decades. Not all, but most of the ladies were quite attractive (internally and externally). From my queries of these couples it seems that a little over half of these marriages turned out just right (for both parties). Were I to become single again I would strongly consider it.
w_wanderers
posted 18-Sep-2006 1:26am  
My mum was a mail order bride. She'd been wanting a divorce since I was a child but she decided to put up with a loveless marriage for my sake and then divorced when I was 19. My father was and still is a strong bushman but he's very traditional (if you know what I mean) and so he's not the kind of bloke that most women would want to marry but he's a great dad. I've always been proud of my mum. She made many sacrifices for me including a loveless marriage.
Biggles Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 29-Oct-2017 2:02pm  
It's a form of prostitution, taking vulnerable women and giving them to the type of men who believe that women are a commodity that can be bought and sold. I find it hard to imagine that it is a path to happiness in the majority of cases.
Lysannus
posted 5-Nov-2017 7:35am  
no no no
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