Sign On
Create Account

Last

TypeCreatedCategoryCreatorSortVotesHidesRating
multiple4-Dec-2008hypothetical questionKristal_Rose by votes47659.3%

Advanced_Stats

What would you do if society collapsed? (Essay & options)

If we had a severe recession which devaluated money, halted intercity commerce (like materials, fuel, food), shut-down all banking & stock transactions, ended welfare and pensions, and perhaps even shut-down the internet, what would you be doing?

First off, what environment do you live in now?
Where would you live?
How would you equip yourself?
What retraining would you invest in?
How would your social life change?
What challenges do you think you would face?
Would you rely on barter, communication, savings, or production skills?
How long do you think you could hold out with that plan?
Might you prefer such a life?
What would you do to prevent or overturn such circumstances?

VotesAnswer
12OTHER (well obviously this list could take volumes)
11Begin farming/gathering.
11Join/organize neighborhood coalitions.
9Raise livestock, hunt, or fish.
9Gather weapons, including long-bows and swords.
9Install wind/solar power.
8Become a bandit.
7Build up a huge pantry.
5Move out of the city, or to another country.
5Trade the car in for a bike or horse.
5Buy/build steam engines for generators and such.
4Develop practical trade skills like knitting sweaters or fermenting lawn clippings.
4Sell lots of my stuff for things more useful like rope, hand-saws, and such.
4Move to a commune.
3Become a cannibal.
2Just go on as usual until I couldn't any longer, then slowly starve.
2Commit suicide.


UserComment
JessicaWoman99
posted 5-Dec-2008 11:29pm  
i would commit suicide waaaa''''''''''
Crayons
posted 6-Dec-2008 1:17am  
Sell smiles to support the internet service. Who would like to be my first customer?
LJD
posted 6-Dec-2008 1:29am  
Barter...I would not steal. Move away from the city. Try to grow my own food. I believe there will be a severe depression, it's on the socialist agenda. People need to prepare themselves.
Pomeranian
posted 6-Dec-2008 2:43am  
Kill myself.
Liss
posted 6-Dec-2008 5:58am  
This is tricky. I'm still living with my dad, so I presume that he would make most decisions. We're in a good neighbourhood to begin with, but I think I'd make sure we set up way more security, boarding up the windows and things like that. We'd have to get some ratty generator from somewhere while I avidly googled for what others are doing. Perhaps my dad would be able to pull some strings where he works so we'd have more food and that. If the gas is still running, I'd end up sleeping downstairs, because my bedroom is freezing in winter without energy. But, then again, I suppose I'd be wearing more layers and stuff anyway.

I wouldn't want my life to turn into some Fallout style shifty underground operations thing. I'd want to carry on as normally as possible, perhaps getting a group together at college to see what can be done.
bill Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 6-Dec-2008 7:19am  
Most of these options seem too optimistic to me. If society broke down, most of us would have few options but to starve or become some stronger person/group's protein source. If you're lucky, you might be able to get into a strong group early, before they stop admitting new members (and begin eating applicants instead). There would be no livestock to be had. Nothing left to gather or hunt. Not enough time to learn a skill. No available weapons (you either have one already or you're probably dead). No one would want your car. You don't have the parts to build an engine. etc.

OK, maybe that's overly bleak. I would try to group up with people I like/respect. Then, I'd try to help the group. I wouldn't try to be leader, but I'd try to help the person who I thought would be a good leader. I'd try to avoid people who use force/anger to rule/exploit. I'd try to find some project I can do for the group that would benefit most of the people in it. Perhaps, organizing and allocating supplies, or building shelter or perhaps a latrine. I'd make myself available to others who were doing helpful things for the group. I'd probably die or become a burden to the group, especially when my medications ran out. I would never commit suicide, though.
jettles Survey Central Subscriber
posted 6-Dec-2008 7:34am  
i think i would continue to live where i do now or my other thought would be to move to canada. i work in health care so i think i would have a job but i know it would be greatly changed and i may be working in clinics or another area. i would roll with the punches i guess until i figured out how to survive. i could use my bike to get from place to place. we don't live far from others.
Enheduanna Survey Central Subscriber
posted 6-Dec-2008 8:34am  
That's a "severe recession"?
Cain
posted 6-Dec-2008 1:25pm  
Questions in order - At the moment, I live in a small rural farming town. I wouldn't move until I had to, although I'd probably try and get to somewhere much warmer, eventually. I would eqiuip myself using whatever system developed. If money became worthless, I'd trade work done for items rather than a wage. I'd learn how to do basic farming, and look after basic animals - chicken, cow's, etc. My social life would probably improve vastly. The challenges would be keep warm, keep dry, keep fed and the same for my family. I don't know how long I'd hold out with this plan, I'd have to see if it worked first! I think there is a good chance I'd enjoy that lifestyle more than my present. I'd be happy to go back to basics. Is there really anything I can do tro prevent these circumstances?
Iseult
posted 6-Dec-2008 1:26pm  
Move to another country.
southernyankee
posted 6-Dec-2008 2:00pm  
First off, if a deep recession happened, money would be valued MORE, not less (in which case I would horde money and then make off like a bandit by buying all the super cheap goods). The whole premise of this survey is therefore retarded. Go take economics 101. Whoever thaught you economics needs to lose their job first, if not beat over their heads with a stick.

What you describing (money devalued AND the other bad stuff that comes with a recession) sounds more like a post epoliptic catasrophy than a deep recession.

I would stock up on ammunition, join a posse, and probabbly become a pirate of some sort, except I wouldn't be retarded and spend it all on booze and women. It seems to be popular in Somalia these days, so why not try it here. If not that, I'd be a spammer and sell Viagra and other crap to idiots; or pull some other crap like that. Better be a non-violent criminal.

Then I'd learn a practile skill (knitting doesn't count, sorry) like farming or fixing cars, learn more about hacking, etc. I'd probabbly go learn how to make meth and grow weed. There will always be demand for pot and other drugs, even after society collapses. Hell, especially after society collapses.



Joanne
posted 6-Dec-2008 3:17pm  
OOOOoooo. This is good. I live on an orchard, so I'd start farming food. I could keep the orchard, I think, if taxes stayed reasonable. I don't think the gov't could evict everyone or would even want to at that point since they'd scarcely have the ability to do it. My sister in California belongs to a barter system but there is no such thing here, so I'd start one - something I should have already done, by the way. We have two wood stoves in the house now, but I'd look to barter for solar panels and wind mills. We already looked at wind power for our place and the price to make a change or even to supplement was crazy. We'd probably gather the immediate family together (my two girls and their families) and start sharing more than we currently do. It would take some thought and courage for such a huge learning curve, but I believe most of us are up to it no matter our circumstances if we pull together.
Kristal_Rose
posted 6-Dec-2008 8:19pm  
I live in LA,CA,USA. If it were that bad, I fear the streets would be full of cannibals. If lucky, the trains coming in from agriculture up north would be pulled by horses or powered with the last of oil reserves, and distributed food-bank style.

I would like to create some commune before this happened. I think that's our answer. Even skyscrapers can be converted to communes containing home-schools, cottage factories, sewing centers, restaurants, and most everything else needed which could be shared without travel costs. I'd like to create a commune out in nature, high tech, with self-sustaining power, agriculture, and water reclamation, where people manufactured goods like bicycles and music instruments.

I'd do most of the first two thirds of the list, and have started on some of it, like selling the car, making a long-bow (not quite sure why on that one, as I'm a pacifist vegetarian), gathering steam parts, and planning communes.

Hopefully I can start some busineses like better bike trailers, bike rain canopies, & solar-steam bike motors which cut down on problems in the first place.

I definitely don't want to be in LA if things get bad. We've already demonstrated a capacity for ransacking riots here.

Even if it came down to social catastrophe, what bugs me is that we knew as far back as the 70's how to prevent it with better infrastructure like mag-trains, electric freeway lanes, and such.

Currently in LA I'd say we need to tear out every third N-S boulevard and plant a greenhouse farm which evaporates sea-water aqueducts. The second boulevards should be all bus, bike, and side-walk shopping trolleys.

Overall, I'd be a planner, assistant organizer, and craftsperson. I'm the sort who could build windmill generators from car parts.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 6-Dec-2008 9:16pm  
Every depression ever, except for famines, has been caused by aristocracies, and socialism kicked in afterwards to ensure the survial of people. If we are lucky, this time around, socialists will head off problems before they start, for instance Obama employing people to build solar and wind farms, and the power-lines to feed cities using electric cars. It doesn't look promising however. Judging by his choice of staff, he's just another capitalizing Bush or Clinton, not a a forward visioning FDR.

It's a bit like in the 30's. No one made or bought electric appliances until the government created the hydro-electric dams. Private enterprise wouldn't create such dams with no existing market.

I don't get why you ar down on socialism, yet still worry about the public.

There are really only two governmental systems, public democracy or fascist/corporate elite aristocracy.
Within public democracy there are only two systems, socialism and libertarianism. Libertarianism, while sounding good, turns out to only clear the path for heightened fascist/corporate elite aristocracy, which leaves only socialism if one wants to ensure the welfare of the public.

To rephrase that, there are two systems of concern, competitive victory, or common good. To be sure, much good has come from the competitive victory model, but for the most part it resembles the role of parasites in nature (like diseases and such). A thriving parasite leaches as much as it can from the host without totally endangering the host (and thus it's own survival).

The libertarianism you probably favor is in fact a form of socialism, where everyone has some craft, cottage industry, or small business which contributes to everyone in society sharing goods and services for the benefit of everyone; each playing a significant part and reaping the rewards. The only main significant tangible difference between that and socialism is that socialists create laws and sytems to ensure that remains the case, rather than some small businesses becoming global corporations, parasitically enslaving the masses as either workers or consumers.

You can't have it both ways. If you give people the freedom to rise above others in wealth and power, they certainly will, and once they are there, they will use that power to make sure things stay that way. That's where we are now. Do you realize that if the top 1% of sciety surendered it's wealth, that everyone below them, including the millionaires, could have twice as much wealth? If you did likewise with the multi-millionaires, even those in the ghettos could afford to start their own businesses. Of course, with total capitalist freedom, in five years we'd still be back in the exact same position we're in now, with a new aristocracy, and a new ghetto population.

Within socialism, again there are two branches, grass-roots socialism, and centralised socialism. To some extent grass-roots socialism is just a variant of capitalist leveraging. Communities may work together, but one geographic community may capitalize on other communities, much like classism works currently. Biblical cities were like that, having an aristocrat portion of town, and a worker portion of town. Things really haven't changed much, except that's it's more on a sliding scale and more class than geography these days.

What do you want it look like? Keep in mind that not one single location has all the farm-land, water, energy, and minerals to sustain itself by today's standards.

So, what are you up to these days?
Kristal_Rose
(reply to southernyankee) posted 6-Dec-2008 9:40pm  
When has money ever been more valued in such times? Even now, unemployment grows while inflation increases. The cost of luxuries may be decreasing, but the cost of groceries has practically doubled in the last two years, without much increase in wages. It's estimated that 50% more people will be hitting up the food-banks in LA this year (and I fear may have to join their ranks).

I suspect some common law will prevail, and vigilantes will impose martial law on pirates and bandits forced to reside on the outskirts of society. There's enough historical evidence to support that likelihood.

It's not all that far fetched an apocalpse. In the 1930's we were still fairly agrarian. Every single thing we do now relies on energy. Imagine if that energy stopped. I think Bill's pessimistic view is more accurate.

Most everyone would probably be growing plants or moon-shining at home. You might have better trade skills manufacturing stills.
Liss
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 7-Dec-2008 6:40am  
> When has money ever been more valued in such times?

What about Russia in 1998?
Gomezy3k
posted 7-Dec-2008 10:14am  
Well first thing I would take my guns and other weapons (swords and crossbow and long bow) and move out of the city, not far but far enough I could "Fort up". Then hunt, fish, if I could rustle some livestock I would raise them, Then I would become a cannibal and bandit...
risingroad
posted 7-Dec-2008 7:34pm  
Eat bugs and grubs. They are high in protein and are plentiful. I was raised in the mountains and there are a lot of weeds (well, city folk call them weeds) that are edible and medicinal. I live near a very liberal and alternative popular town where people are very resourceful so I think it would be a welcomed challenge. A nice change. Probably a lot less stressful than "working for the man".
risingroad
(reply to southernyankee) posted 7-Dec-2008 7:40pm  
Are you serious?
southernyankee
(reply to risingroad) posted 7-Dec-2008 9:17pm  
As a last resort, yes, I probabbly would do some of those things.

The first thing I would do is stock up on ammunition to fend of the bandits to keep me from getting robbed. The last thing I would do is become one of them. I mean if I had to in order to survive. I'd probabbly do the meth and pot thing before robbing others though. The people would be much less likely to try to stop me.
cerealkiller
posted 7-Dec-2008 10:43pm  
Other: life would not change for me at all. A recession would not do these things. The banks aren't going to close, commerce is not going to stop, etc. It would take a hell of alot worse for these to happen.

If in the highly unlikely event all this did happen I'd have to start kidnapping and cooking local Mexicans for dinner....


Right now things are better for me financially than it has been for a long time. My company is doing extremely well, I'm busy at work most of the time and even working overtime, ditching my house is leaving me with money left over every paycheck even paying all the bills and buying a lot of crap, gas is only $1.49 a gallon here and my utilities are lower at the new place. Only way I'm hurting is my 401k is down but who cares about that with 10-15 years yet before I can retire? Odds are I'll probably be dead before I ever retire.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 8-Dec-2008 12:24am  
Very good post Kristal Rose! I guess I fear too much centralization, laws that will kill creativity, individualism. I believe in less government, less taxes, more individual responsibility.

Lately, I've just been preparing for my family Christmas Gathering on Dec. 28th. Trying to relax from too much stress from politics. My sister-in-law passed away yesterday, trying to give my husband support.

I wish you, and your family a wonderful Christmas season. God Bless!
Kristal_Rose
(reply to Liss) posted 8-Dec-2008 2:24am  
I'd have to study that. It comes as a complete surprise to me. I had heard quite the opposite, that after their collapse people were resorting to barter with items they produced at the factories they worked at. I also heard that the primary cause of the collapse was bankruptcy in the first place. Perhaps they stopped issuing money though, and it became scarce. In the U.S. only 3% of money issued is even printed. It would be a pretty amazing thing for banks to remain honest with all that virtual computer money in the absence of a solid government, unless they in a sense were the remaining government.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 8-Dec-2008 3:19am  
Sorry to hear that. I'm under stress just trying to figure out what to do with my life.

Centralisation is always inevitable unless EVERYONE agrees to be an anarchist (and that's never going to happen given human nature). Otherwise in an open realm of victor competiton centralisation will belong to one of three entities: politicians (fascism), corporations (capitalism), or democracy (socialism). Currently it's a bit of a balance between the three, but there's no system of checks and balances in this, and the first two forces are gaining prominence these past few decades. Once either of the first two win out, it's over for democracy. The only checks left are those which I was describing about the nature of parasite survival. That has actually preserved human-kind throughout the centuries, in spite of the occasional genocide.

I'm going to my mom's for Christmas, not the ex and kids. It's my last year before they move from the beautiful driftwood beaches. Enjoy the holidays.
Matty
posted 8-Dec-2008 8:27am  
Survive as a hunter/gatherer
southernyankee
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 8-Dec-2008 11:59am  
> When has money ever been more valued in such times?

Um, try the Great Depression. And pretty much every panic, ever.


> Even now, unemployment
> grows while inflation increases.

Bull! Prices of just about everything has been going down, not up.


> The cost of luxuries may be decreasing,
> but the cost of groceries has practically doubled in the last two
> years, without much increase in wages.

Not where I live. Grocery prices are about stagnant.


> It's estimated that 50% more
> people will be hitting up the food-banks in LA this year (and I fear
> may have to join their ranks).
>

Estimated by whom? How come this problem doesn't happen everywhere else then?




> I suspect some common law will prevail, and vigilantes will impose
> martial law on pirates and bandits forced to reside on the outskirts
> of society. There's enough historical evidence to support that likelihood.
>

Most likely that will happen. The trick is to become a bandit only for a short amont of time, make your money and then rejoin society. No one's gonna remember that you were the bandit a year from now as long as there's no paper trail. You just got to be smart about it.



> It's not all that far fetched an apocalpse. In the 1930's we were
> still fairly agrarian. Every single thing we do now relies on energy.
> Imagine if that energy stopped.

Um, have you seen gas prices lately? They're in a record low right now over the past like 5 years or so. Besides, there's so much untapped oil in the US gulf and Alaska its not even funny. If it ever comes to that (hopefully not), its never too late to drill.



I think Bill's pessimistic view is
> more accurate.
>

I think Bill was referring to would we be able to rely on hunting and gathering if society broke down, not on if a recession will make society break down. A recession (or depression for that matter) is not the same thing as a post-epoliptic society.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 8-Dec-2008 3:45pm  
I think you said the key words, human nature, self preservation. Only when God returns, with his guidance, will we be governed fairly. Only if men governed according to God's laws, could we be successful. People are different, have different talents.

Enjoy Christmas! It's always nice at mom's house, that's what the children say. How many people are expected at your mom's?

Kristal Rose, you have so much to offer the world. I know you're a very talented person, you'll find your niche. Do you have a special person in your life? If not, you need to find one. God Bless!
Kristal_Rose
(reply to southernyankee) posted 8-Dec-2008 9:25pm  
You're getting hung up on terms (like 'recession'). My survey was about what people would do if our economic & production infrastructure collapsed, for whatever reasons, but leaning towards energy shortage or wealth mismanagement. Heck, even a revolution without a valid cause could do it.

Things must be different outside of LA. A 2 liter bottle of soda (luxury) still costs $1(genenric) to $1.60 (brand), but bread has gone from $1.80 to $4.50, catfood from .60 to 1.20, yogurt from .50 to .90, cheese from $3/lb to $6/lb, avocados from .75ea. to 1.50ea., soup from $1.30 to $2.60/can since about 2002. The cost of all groceries in LA have pretty much doubled since then. The cost of used clothing has also doubled in that period from $3.50/garment to $7.50/garment. Interest has also gone up. I had 5-7% interest back then, and am lucky to have 10% today. That alone costs me $1k more per year, which makes a huge difference living on $12k. I had to kill most of my discretionary budgets this last year, music gear, dining, computer, bike improvement, and gifts. Fortunately I have most anything I could need now anyhow.

Indeed they are drilling. A nearby field of pumps is increasing from 200+ to 800+ pumps. I just sent a turbine company ideas on running their crude turbines directly at the pumps with enough daily reserve to only power the grid during peak load hours, thus cutting transportation and refining expenses.

I don't personally know anyone of any economic class who hasn't had to tighten their belt much more than usual this last year. They are all downscaling purchase activity.

Haven't you watched the news on the record sales decreases? Advertising this year is clearly trying to talk people into buying anything at all, and they're bringing back old-fashioned plans like lay-away for those who have shot their credit aready. However much they give to Citibank and AIG, our money's about to be worth that much less. Only money issued to increase domestic product could change that.

If you want a more accurate picture of economic trends; purchases and employment; you need to mind the luxury factor. Things may be great for luxury consumers making $40k+ and employed in non-luxury careers, but not for your average person.

Personally, I'm thinking to get somewhat out of the computer field and into sculpting, something based on non-duplicable labor. These days, even for microcontrollers, people are inventing stuff for free faster than I can read the product headlines. I've been planning wind-up chess robots and non-electric thinking pinball machines with Go-game like labyrinthes. I could non-electrically emulate 96k of ROM and 48k of RAM in the space of an oven, but an 8Mhz MCU would operate 800,000 times faster. I even came up with a fast 2 Mb harddrive based on Victrola cylinders with steam amplifiers and gas jet cooling for the wax recording tracks. Totally unpractical, but hey, that's art. I think enough rare people would pay good money to have their ass whipped at chess by a wind-up toy.

Unlike Germany during the Great Depression, we did indeed have deflation, not inflation, but wages dropped, so it amounts to the same thing. Perhaps the bailout was done to create inflation equivalent to deflation, and thus hide recession from the public. These things can be hard to sort out, being based so heavily on the consumer faith index. Just the notion that people can't afford things can cripple economies. That notion has brewing here for a few years now.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 8-Dec-2008 10:48pm  
I've been too concerned with career decisions lately to think about relationships or entertainments much at all.

I'm the only one coming up to my mom's this year. There will be a few neighbors to attend parties and museums with though. It's the one time of year when I can put career away and think about beaches, movies, art, or cooking, and get some perspective on the life I'll be returning to.

I figure the grander designs of nature, from ant colonies to the rise and fall of empires are in fact God's higher laws. The only reason people expect anything different is that they see the universe through their personal eyes and ego demands, and not through the eyes of God who is perpetual and complete while civilisations came and go. Pterodactyls and passenger pigeons are gone. When will life be governed fairly for them? They had their time, we each have our time. That some period of time will come which is managed more fairly than now seems to me to be absurd and pointless. Overall people prefer this chaos to lying on a tropical beach next to lions and lambs. Even when the prominint life on earth was 20' tall mushrooms, it's always been perfect here. People just can't see it. If they want to see the nature of the divine, they have to look deeper than any surface configuration of the mechanism of nature. The same would hold true of any afterlife based on perception of changes. You can not have light without darkness, good without evil, action without stillness, or it would be meaningless and unsustainable, like listening to a favorite note of a concerto, and nothing else for eternity. This seeming chaos is God's masterpiece, and when your soul touches God's radiant note, I figure you'll be back for more. As chaotic as this is, even this can be taken for granted after 80 years and start seeming the same without a breather. When you are quite in touch wih the divine, you can find fascination though in every particle of nature. Heaven is that divine love and fascination trancending all nature, not any particular painful or pleasurable circumstances we may find ourselves in. It is your mortal nature which always looks towards future circumtances and leaves you wanting. Your divine nature always has access to that grace which is fulfilling.

Have you given thought to what this God's governing might look like?
I have one experience which might come close, in which I spent a week or two abiding in the heart and senses, and my own body was governed by graceful serendipitous circumstances such that I was free from having to worry over any decision, and work or play was spelled out before my eyes. As sweet as that was, like any lion/lamb parable, it was just one visit within the seeming chaos masterpiece. States of divinity too come in a kaleioscopic myriad of changes, and overall you can't have heavens without hells either. The hells take various forms like cold empty meaninglessness, but they too are ultimately transcended along with the heavens just like any physical experience.

Your advice to find someone is very down to earth and practical. It's an invitation to increase love, suffering, confusion, direction, and the whole gamut, which is what experiencing life is about. I should fit it in somehow. Lately I've retreated into design of purely mehanical wind-up chess playing robots. It's it's own little universe.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 9-Dec-2008 2:49am  
Kristal Rose, you need someone in your life, someone to love and care for you...everyone does.

I understand in this environment we're living in today, people have to look and see what direction their life will take them, possible new careers.

Both my sons employment, are iffy. So many people laid off. My sons have been fairly lucky because of seniority, but it hurts them to see their fellow workmen out of work, and most of them with young families.

I feel in God's kingdom there will be peace, not the stress of today.
they Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 9-Dec-2008 1:53pm  
I would hook up with my brother. I've been supplying him for years with a steady stream of survival/camping equipment, guides, and books about this subject. He's prepared.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 10-Dec-2008 5:10am  
Stress has come and gone since the days of Adam and Eve. More interestingly, the lengths of cycles by which it happens to society roughly match our own lifespans, suggesting it's to be part of the experience at one time of life or another for everyone visiting the planet. Likewise sexual liberations come and go.

People enjoying solving things rather than dancing and singing all day, day after day.

Stress is optional. It is based on fear. With just a touch of faith or reassurance from spirit, it need not exist at all. One needn't stress about the inevitable. Most people accept the inevitable and deal practically with it. The one clear inevitable thing is our death, and this too, knowing the all encompassing orchestrations of the creator, is nothing to worry about either.
We are in charge of our own stress.

I read a most interesting comment the other night, that we individuals are the ultimate authority, and I can't really argue the point. The auther pointed out that while many may consider a leader, or even Christ to be the ultimate authority, not one of us accepts and bows to that authority except by our own authority. It is we who choose to have a faith in any authority beyond ourselves. I suppose you could call that freewill.


Speaking of stress, a building inspector decided my place is a hazard because of too much stuff, and unless I can get some sort of extension, I need to change things by Dec. 29th, and thus cancel my Christmas visit to my parents. Unfortunately it's all stuff I use or need, and would be useless in storage even if I could afford such.
they Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator
(reply to they) posted 10-Dec-2008 12:05pm  
> I would hook up with my brother.


I realized later that this might be taken as me trying to repopulate the world with my brother.

I meant... "hook up" as in "get in touch". lol
Joanne
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 10-Dec-2008 12:50pm  
>
> Stress is optional. It is based on fear. With just a touch of faith
> or reassurance from spirit, it need not exist at all. One needn't
> stress about the inevitable. Most people accept the inevitable and
> deal practically with it. The one clear inevitable thing is our death,
> and this too, knowing the all encompassing orchestrations of the creator,
> is nothing to worry about either.
> We are in charge of our own stress.
>

Beautifully said !! smiley:::smile
Joanne
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 10-Dec-2008 12:53pm  
>
> Speaking of stress, a building inspector decided my place is a hazard
> because of too much stuff, and unless I can get some sort of extension,
> I need to change things by Dec. 29th, and thus cancel my Christmas
> visit to my parents. Unfortunately it's all stuff I use or need, and
> would be useless in storage even if I could afford such.

Bummer. I can believe this of you, though . . . your place probably looks like your mind . . . full of useful stuff !
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 10-Dec-2008 2:24pm  
Can you move to a place with room, ample to hold your possessions? I don't know how many things you have, but couldn't you temporarily move some of the things to storage, and in the meantime look for a place with ample room. In order words, do what you can to be sure you make your Christmas visit with your parents.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to they) posted 11-Dec-2008 12:27am  
You're talking to yourself now? I don't think there was any hint of confusion in the matter till now.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to Joanne) posted 11-Dec-2008 12:31am  
Thanks. I'm also fond of Victorian curios cabinet style décor. Some people are adverse to that and consider other than white walls and clean tables to be clutter. Such people probably don't do much at home except watch TV.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 11-Dec-2008 12:35am  
No, I'm falling behind on meeting expenses now, and after a dozen years of rent control, moving up to a on bedroom apartment would more than double my rent. My mom might help me rent a garage for three months. Storage lockers cost $120/mo. for a 3x4, more than I can afford, and less than I need. I'm in a complex bind.
they Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 11-Dec-2008 7:13am  
Might as well talk to myself.... I've got a lot to say and less people to say it to.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to they) posted 11-Dec-2008 7:57am  
I kinda go the other route, I pretend to talk to someone, but keep my mind on everyone else overhearing.

My bro couldn't handle 'being taught', though he likes to learn, so when he stayed here I did things like teach my friend advanced guitar stringing and tuning, speaking loud and clear with the primary intent of my brother overhearing. I wonder if many other people use that technique much? I think I've seen it used on TV as a means of attracting dates.
they Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 11-Dec-2008 9:23am  
I have a friend who will tell me stories in public places, and sometimes I swear she's hoping people will hear her while she's talking. It just doesn't feel like she is only talking to me. Maybe that is just me being insecure. I talk to who I'm with rather quietly... I'm a pretty private person.

I just decided that when society collapses, after I meet up with my brother John, we'll start heading west to look for you. Should be fun smiley:::smile
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 11-Dec-2008 2:28pm  
I didn't realize storage units are that expensive. Several years ago, when my son was divorced, and he had moved to another place, I bought a storage shed unit, put in my yard, I believe it's a 10 x 10. The unit cost less than one months rent. He was a single father, raising 2 children, now 19, and almost 18 years. Perhaps, your mom might be able to do that? I hope you find a solution to your problem soon. Take care!
southernyankee
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 11-Dec-2008 3:51pm  
> You're getting hung up on terms (like 'recession').

No, I understood pretty well what you've meant in your survey. I even figured this was one of yours (or LJD's, one of the two).

I've even commented that what you described sounded more like a post-epolitpic society rather than an actual recession. Its just one of my pet peeves when people say that the Great Depression caused inflation making your money worthless. Thats total bullcrap, because it did just the opposite. I even caught it back in 5th grade when I've watched some movie "Inifinity" (?) about a girl who time travelled to the Great Depression in the 30's. This was WAY before I knew anything about economics (short of playing Sim City).


> My survey was
> about what people would do if our economic & production infrastructure
> collapsed, for whatever reasons, but leaning towards energy shortage
> or wealth mismanagement. Heck, even a revolution without a valid cause
> could do it.
>

Yeah, I got that. I knew you meant that. In a nutshell, you're asking what would you do if society collapsed: a) become a hippie, b) become an Amish, or c) become a gun nut; just with a lot more options.

My answer, in a nutshell, is c. From there on, you branch out if you want to store amunition for protection from criminals, OR become one of the criminals. My answer was both, start off as being on the defensive and as a last resort become a criminal (except be smart enough to manage my booty, and rejoin society after that (eg: quiting while I am ahead)). I doubt people would be able to accurately keep track of all the criminals anyway, so it would work.





> Things must be different outside of LA. A 2 liter bottle of soda (luxury)
> still costs $1(genenric) to $1.60 (brand), but bread has gone from
> $1.80 to $4.50, catfood from .60 to 1.20, yogurt from .50 to .90,
> cheese from $3/lb to $6/lb, avocados from .75ea. to 1.50ea., soup
> from $1.30 to $2.60/can since about 2002. The cost of all groceries
> in LA have pretty much doubled since then. The cost of used clothing
> has also doubled in that period from $3.50/garment to $7.50/garment.
> Interest has also gone up. I had 5-7% interest back then, and am lucky
> to have 10% today. That alone costs me $1k more per year, which makes
> a huge difference living on $12k. I had to kill most of my discretionary
> budgets this last year, music gear, dining, computer, bike improvement,
> and gifts. Fortunately I have most anything I could need now anyhow.
>

Sure, over the last several years prices were going up, but over the last few months, they were going DOWN, not up. At least around here. Maybe you just happen to live in a really crappy place.




> I don't personally know anyone of any economic class who hasn't had
> to tighten their belt much more than usual this last year. They are
> all downscaling purchase activity.
>

I guess I am the exception since I expect to graduate this semester. I haven't really noticed the recession, but thats sort of because I am already near broke to begin with. I just notice the benefits of lower prices without the downside. My pay won't go down nor will I lose my job because I work for the state, which has a fixed pay scale. In a weird way, I actually benefit from the recession moreso that I lose out. At least in the short term.






> Personally, I'm thinking to get somewhat out of the computer field
> and into sculpting, something based on non-duplicable labor.

Stick with computers. The government is always hiring. Especially if you have a degree (especially a masters), they'll take you in a heart-beat.



> These
> days, even for microcontrollers, people are inventing stuff for free
> faster than I can read the product headlines. I've been planning wind-up
> chess robots and non-electric thinking pinball machines with Go-game
> like labyrinthes. I could non-electrically emulate 96k of ROM and
> 48k of RAM in the space of an oven, but an 8Mhz MCU would operate
> 800,000 times faster. I even came up with a fast 2 Mb harddrive based
> on Victrola cylinders with steam amplifiers and gas jet cooling for
> the wax recording tracks. Totally unpractical, but hey, that's art.
> I think enough rare people would pay good money to have their ass
> whipped at chess by a wind-up toy.
>

That actually sounds like a pretty cool project. I wouldn't mind playing that.



> Unlike Germany during the Great Depression, we did indeed have deflation,
> not inflation, but wages dropped, so it amounts to the same thing.

Not quite. Keep in mind people who already have money, but just low incomes (retirees). They'll be on the winning side. The flip side is people who owe lots of money, but have high paying careers. When they get downsized, they'll be stuck in the hole, which is really bad when deflation happens.



> Perhaps the bailout was done to create inflation equivalent to deflation,
> and thus hide recession from the public.

I am thinking the same thing.



LindaH
posted 11-Dec-2008 7:37pm  
I'd try to shrug it off.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to they) posted 12-Dec-2008 4:52am  
Yeah, sounds great. Seems to me that your locale is better for post apocalytical living though. Won't be much but cannibals here.

Maybe they should have a magazine for that, like Sunset - The magazine of Western Living; Total Darkness - The magazine of Post Apocalyptical Living.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 12-Dec-2008 4:56am  
Yard? This is LA apratment living here. Storage facilities are block large complexes several stories tall around here. Fortunately the prices dropped 40% since last summer.

Even better news, my brother is driving down from Washington state to help me out cleaning out the place to put it back together.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to southernyankee) posted 12-Dec-2008 5:20am  
Hah. Yeah, that' about it, except I was wondering how they'd go about becoming Hippie, Amish, or Gun nut, expecting to explain things like that there prabably aren't enough hunting animals to go around anymore, that gasoline will deteriorate, that sort of thing. Plus, I wanted to see if anyone had any new ingenious strategies, like how to build house boats from soda bottles and live off algae.

Well, maybe your circumtances do work out better. Fixed income in LA is by no means keeping up with rent and groceries. I had noticed other stuff actually getting cheaper, but my buying power was deteriorating even faster.

I only have an AA. That's a problem with being largely self-taught. I would have had a NASA grant last year if not for that.

So which did you prefer, the slow mechanical chess or speedy labyrinthe pinball?
So you're a bit a steam-punk fan too I guess.

What really sucks is when you owe plenty and don't have a paying career to begin with (like me, relatively speaking). I've got to clean out my apartment for inspectors, but hopefully will have useful workbench space after building better storage. I practically build things in my lap or mid-air these days, which ain't going to work with table-saws and such. I'll be quite busy for next few weeks.

they Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 12-Dec-2008 7:02am  
The winters will be harsh though. Maybe we should try a little further south...
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 12-Dec-2008 2:41pm  
Wonderful, your brother coming to help you, I like that. He cares about you. I didn't know you lived in LA. Things will work out for you Kristal Rose. Keep the faith, God bless!

Kristal_Rose
(reply to they) posted 12-Dec-2008 10:58pm  
I was thinking Jamaica or Costa Rica.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 12-Dec-2008 11:27pm  
I'm sure I've mentioned being in Los Angeles dozens of times by now, but that's ok.

I try to keep track of where everyone's from. It gives me more insight into their context. You'd be a quite a different person if you said the same things, yet did so living in China or Hollywood.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 13-Dec-2008 1:02am  
I'm sorry you probably have mentioned LA, but please forgive my memory. I'm from Northern CA. Personally, I don't know how you take living in LA. I've never lived there, only heard of the environment.
cloudhugger
posted 14-Dec-2008 8:03pm  
PART 1
>First off, what environment do you live in now?
Suburb in farming country
>Where would you live?
Where I do now. There are some good people here, the greedy selfish ones could not last here.
>How would you equip yourself?
As the forefathers and foremothers did. Coon skin baby!
>What retraining would you invest in?
The same training I'm into now, but I would add electrictricity knowledge.
>How would your social life change?
Not much, probably would become more social.
>What challenges do you think you would face?
I have always acted as a survivalist, without the paranoia.
>Would you rely on barter, communication, savings, or production skills?
I do now.
>How long do you think you could hold out with that plan?
109 years old...about another 61 years.
>Might you prefer such a life?
No, although some things would be better, no one relishes a hard life. And it would be hard.
>What would you do to prevent or overturn such circumstances?
Do what I do now.
PART 2
Begin farming/gathering.
Develop practical trade skills like knitting sweaters or fermenting lawn clippings.
Gather weapons, including long-bows and swords.
Join/organize neighborhood coalitions.
Sell lots of my stuff for things more useful like rope, hand-saws, and such.
Trade the car in for a bike or horse.
Buy/build steam engines for generators and such.
Install wind/solar power.
Build up a huge pantry

Communitys working together would be far more valuable than communes. They have proven themselves in thepast that they do not work.
southernyankee
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 14-Dec-2008 11:58pm  
> Hah. Yeah, that' about it, except I was wondering how they'd go about
> becoming Hippie, Amish, or Gun nut, expecting to explain things like
> that there prabably aren't enough hunting animals to go around anymore,
> that gasoline will deteriorate, that sort of thing.

Well, if you're an Amish, that wouldn't be an issue. They're already accustomed to living like crap, and they're speciality is puppy mills. Whatever animals they need to eat, they can just breed them.

Hippies are pretty much like the amish, only with a lot more free sex. Oh, that and a lot of them don't eat meat, so survival for them would be even easier. I mean if you can live of off tofoo for the rest of your life, you can pretty much survive anything.

The only danger that hippies and the amish would face would be the gun nuts with criminal intent. Since the Amish don't believe in violence of any kind (even defending themselves) it wouldn't take long to steal all their produce. The hippies, as pacifistic as they are, if push came to shove, at some point would actually fight back because pacifism isn't their core religion.


For the gun nut, the biggest challenge would be making sure that your guns work. Afterall, after several years, guns tend to decay, and unless you know how to mine your own steal, you'd be pretty much screwed. Even if you can do those things, I would question the quality of said guns. Even the millitary grade equipment (which usually are contracted to the lowest bidder mind you) would probabbly be more reiable than any crap they make. You would have to ask Matty as he would know more about that.


> Well, maybe your circumtances do work out better. Fixed income in
> LA is by no means keeping up with rent and groceries. I had noticed
> other stuff actually getting cheaper, but my buying power was deteriorating
> even faster.
>

Or has it ocurred to you that perhaps LA just sucks. There are probabbly better places you could live. Food price increases probably has more to do with gentrification and store owners abandoning the area. As crapty as things are getting all over the place, with all our problems; inflation is just not one of them.



> So which did you prefer, the slow mechanical chess or speedy labyrinthe
> pinball?

I'd probabbly take the mechanical chess.


> So you're a bit a steam-punk fan too I guess.
>
> What really sucks is when you owe plenty and don't have a paying career
> to begin with (like me, relatively speaking).

But if thats the case, then you're kinda screwed anyway, recession or no recession.


I've got to clean out
> my apartment for inspectors, but hopefully will have useful workbench
> space after building better storage. I practically build things in
> my lap or mid-air these days, which ain't going to work with table-saws
> and such. I'll be quite busy for next few weeks.
>

Well, good luck with that.

Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 28-Dec-2008 1:07am  
It's warm, and anything man-made people might want exists out here, but I miss the waterfalls and redwoods of No. Cal.

Overhauling the house. What turmoil. Lots of catastrophic mixed blessings. Didn't make it up to my moms, but with space again plan to finally make my tandem bike-moped and go camping to her place b Summer.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to southernyankee) posted 28-Dec-2008 2:05am  
Hah. Yeah, read your grocery labels. Everyone essentially lives off tofu now already, or at least some cyclotron plastic version of soy.

A good virus doesn't destroy it's host. If they were smart they'd only raid the Amish on a regular basis. As the Amish would no longer be isolated, their beliefs on violence might evolve.

The hippies I now would declare war and get into it if necessary. Casual anarchist nature is more their thing.

I'm surprised guns, except the plastic ones, would deteriorate. I would have thought they were made from the best tempured-stainless nickel-cobalt.

My bro was just here helping me put stuff in storage, and I learned that his 2-bed, 2-bath w/ 2-car garage & 2-yards in WA state rents for half as much a 1-bed apt. in LA that's lucky to have stove.

I have an Excel sheet with running totals. I should be out of my storage locker with spackled color walls and custom workbench/cabinets by the end of Feb if I make a full time job of it. I just had all the faucets replaced. Then I finally build my moped and go camping to make up for the Christmas vacation I missed (and cut down on junk parts I may or may not need). Hopefully I also find myself a near-new picture-in-picture flat-screen to replace various monitors and the TV taking up a dozen cubic feet.

LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 28-Dec-2008 3:55am  
I understand about overhauling the house, I redid my kitchen and one bathroom, it was difficult. I told my husband he and I are going through the garage, and shed, organize, get rid of a lot of things. Please be safe on your trip this summer.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 30-Dec-2008 11:42am  
Passed inspection. Next comes sending Christmas stuff then replacing the bike basket/trailer the tree-trimmers took out (need groceries), then spackling and painting.

I didn't realize what a difference having space to walk around makes.

A quick scrub of the bathroom only takes 40 minutes. The sort involving restoring door knobs and trimming over-spackle takes 19 hours.

I'm guessing that the sooner you attend to that cleaning, the lighter your load over the next few years.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 30-Dec-2008 5:35pm  
Sounds like you've been successful in taking care of business. It all in the planning, organization is good.

I think clearing clutter, donating items one doesn't use, frees up the mind. My husband said he is game for cleaning out the garage. I told him, we'll take 30 minutes a day, so it isn't overwhelming to him or I. He's a bit of a procrastinator, but think he's game now.

I wish you the best.
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 1-Jan-2009 7:27am  
I've had a good New Years, finally talking to the gal next door in some depth. Brought out the sparklers I'd been saving for years.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 1-Jan-2009 2:40pm  
I'm happy you had a good New Years! I haven't seen sparklers in years, I would have liked that. Talking to the gal next door, a possible future date? I hope so, being alone is no fun. Loneliness cuts like a knife.

We ate leftovers until they came out our ears, so my husband at 9:00PM went down to Wendy's Hamburgers, and bought us a hamburger. We watched videos, and opened a tin of popcorn.

Take care, and God Bless!
Kristal_Rose
(reply to LJD) posted 1-Jan-2009 8:08pm  
I kissed her actually, in spite of her having a lesbian girlfriend for years. Sounds like their plans to remain together are indifferent, and she was suggesting to me just the sort of supportive plans I was hoping to hear.
LJD
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 2-Jan-2009 4:42am  
You've made a new friend, no matter the circumstances...this is good. I think it's just wonderful being able to talk to someone, someone to connect with. Perhaps go to coffee, go out to lunch. I wish you well!
wwsd
posted 2-Jan-2009 5:00am  
I would live with a militia, I would equip myself with some type of high powered rifle.
FauxLo
posted 5-Jan-2009 8:31pm  
If possible, I'd turn to a life of crime, then silently watch all the turmoil and feel justified in all of the turn of events. Or "off" myself, but that's just me.
Psychopath
posted 2-Feb-2009 10:40am  
Arm myself and take care of business.
mhendley1
posted 22-Mar-2010 9:08pm  
well i live in hanover, maryland about 20 minutes outside of Baltimore city, I would become a hired gun or mercenary i would love that job, when i was in the us army i recieved expert on the shooting range and i could hit anything with an m16 but give my a powerfull sniper rifel....the options are endless of what i could do with it hahahahahhaha
Biggles Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 29-Oct-2017 1:07pm  
I'm not sure how transferable my skills would be to a society that had collapsed. On the surface, doctors should be more in demand than ever, with the amount of sickness that would result from a societal collapse, but what could I actually do with nobody manufacturing medications or intravenous fluids, and no surviving blood banks? I think I would try and team up with some people so we could farm. I live in a town with lots of farm country, though not much of it that is still being farmed very actively. We'd need to find an old farmer or two to teach us the ropes, and an old engineer or two (lots of engineers amongst our elderly population here) to help plan irrigation and wind-powered machinery, then lots of younger fitter people for the labour. It would be hard work, but we might be lucky.
dab
(reply to Biggles) posted 30-Oct-2017 8:33am  
Your mention of blood banks reminds me of a story from my recent trip to Dominica. On one of my flights I brought over 20 units of whole blood. They seemed ridiculously appreciative for such a small quantity. We were talking about setting up some more flights to get larger quantities but there was an issue of where to find the blood. Apparently they don't regularly have blood in the blood banks down there. If someone needs an operation, they're told how much blood they'll expect to need and they're then responsible to go find people who are willing to donate. Usually they hit up family. Once there's enough donations, and it matches, then they can have the operation.
Biggles Bronze Star Survey Creator
(reply to dab) posted 30-Oct-2017 5:59pm  
It's amazing, isn't it? I remember reading about Sierra Leone, where half of women were dying in childbirth. The lack of any kind of blood service in the country was a major contributing factor. We take so much for granted. I've only ever had to wait a significant amount of time for a transfusion on one occasion, when I had a patient with some rare antibodies, which meant the blood had to be couriered from some way away. And the labs knew the patient and had a protocol in place for her so they could advise me how to proceed in the meantime.
FordGuy
posted 1-Nov-2017 8:09am  
Good thing I am already brewing beer.... Beer
dab
(reply to FordGuy) posted 1-Nov-2017 1:14pm  
Excellent trade goods.
Lysannus
posted 5-Nov-2017 7:29am  
1). Well I would start by growing my own food / raising livestock.
2). Make sure everyone in the house knows how to use a gun to stave off the leaches.
3). Go back to full time heating with wood and using beeswax candles for light.
4). Modify a bike to run the water pump.
Last
Advanced_Stats

If you'd like to vote and/or comment on this survey, please Sign On

 
Link this survey: http://surveycentral.org/survey/society-collapsed-essay-options--30045.html

Hits: 0 today (32 in the last 30 days)