If God is all-powerful can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?

Stupid and retarded survey...

Other: I'm too jaded to answer this survey.

the question is wrong

whatchya mean?

I know the correct answer to this question. "Yes" and "No".

Yes, because God can do anything He wants to!

How about 'maybe'

My God is an awesome GOD!!! HE is all knowing & all powerful.I owe everything I have & I am to HIM.

You are applying the semantics of "existence" (weight, space, time). These things are not applicable to describing the state of "being". In other words, the question is mute, because it does not apply to the realm of God. (Philosophy 101 - Semantics)

Better you should ask: "If a tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it makes a sound?"

Or my favorite variation: "If a tree falls on a deaf man in the forest, can his wife still collect the insurance?"

It may be 'moot'
i always like the tree variation : if a tree falls in the forest and no one was around to hear it, was the forest really there?
thats an existentialist question, and i am not an existentialist, so its also moot.

God has better things to do.
And God's not male.
Which is probably why God's not interested in such pointless exploits.

That's got to be a controversial question. Since God is all-powerful, there is nothing that He couldn't do, but if He wanted to not be able to pick up the rock, then I believe that He would limit His ability in that situation (hold Himself back).

How about this one: "I stink there for I am" - Arnold Schwartenegger after a good workout.

Oh yea! She'd rather do needlepoint.
"And God knit the world in six days and on the seventh day She tie-died."

Don't fall in the trap. It's part of that mutually exclusive adjective thingee. "Irresistible force meets immoveable object."

If you want mind games try Zeno's paradox: the arrow never gets to the target because it has to go half way before it goes all the way. Yadda, yadda, yadda, 1 divided by infinity = infinity.

Therefore all motion is an illusion.

I prefer the variation: I can't really be picking my nose, because my finger has to get half way there before it gets all the way there...yadda, yadda, yadda.

Ask romkey!

"Maybe" isn't really an answer. "Maybe" is like saying "I don't know the answer". No, the correct answer is "Yes" and "No". God is so all-powerful, that he can alter the nature of reality so that he can not only make such a big rock that he can't lift it, but he can also lift it. Both things are simultaneously true. God transcends dualities.

There are some things God can't do.

He can't stop loving us.
He can't not forgive us, if we repent.

god? What about Pinocchio?

Schwarzenegger

God can do anything!

Touche!

Good question, bad philosophy. There is a fundamental logical error in this question, and it is simple to find when you know where to look.
For one, 'lift', implies force from gravity.

So, really, the question is, can god make a force that is more powerful than any force he can create... Of course.. at this point, common sense dictates the answer is no!

So, no, god cannot make a rock he can't lift, but this does not mean that he is not all-powerful, merely that even he cannot violate the laws of logic, which are by their nature unable to be violated.

Of course, their isn't a god anyways, but this argument against his all-powerfull-ness is very weak.

Or, a simpler arguement, reaching an opposite conclusion but still proving the invalidity of the original steps, is the fact that he can create, at most, an infinitely sized rock, which will have nothing to be attracted to due to the fact that it will take up infinite space, leaving no room for anything else... So, at the most, in order to leave room for something to attract the rock, god would have to create a rock of size x (where x is equal to the limit of y as y approaches infitiy), and he could create a force of infinity to lift said rock of near infinite size. In this case, answer is yes.

Either way, the point is, that clearly, it is merely a cleverly disguised proof of an highly obvious logical statement (Namely, 1 is neither less than or more than 1.), with a twist of anti-god in it to make it seem more complex.).

It kind of reminds me of the question 'If god created everything, who created god?'.
God is an eternal being!!!!!! He was neither born, nor shall he ever die!!!!!! DUH! Just as there is no 'Last Effect'. There is no 'First cause' troubling, but true.

Why don't you ask God yourself? Why ask me-I'm not God's spokeperson!

Sure. Create a rock, and choose to not be able to lift it.

I'm sorry.

Why did you even answer this survey then???

If God is all-powerful can he make a rock so big he can't lift it?

I don't think god exists

ok, I don't get the half way thing.

What a dumb question, who made this survey -a 5 year old?

My question: can God create a random number, i.e. can he create a number without deciding what it will be, and without knowing in advance what number it will be?

God doesn't have a gender being a spiritual entity. Why would God want to move the rock in the first place?

Who said I answered it?

HUH???

its called linear time. if you shoot the arrow, it first must get halfway to the target, then half that distance then half that, etc,etc. it will never reach the target because it's linear fractions between the bow and the target are infinite.

it's a classic question... it's not dumb at all

I think the question is wrong because the question pretends to be about the nature of "God" the deity, but is actually about semantics... the only reason there's a paradox is because of the semantics of the question and the definitions we bring to the words. I don't believe that it reflects an actual paradox.

(I don't think you're wrong for asking the question, though)

Such utter submissiveness depresses me. I makes me want to save you.

I'm sorry you feel that way.Thank you tho,I've already been saved.

well, that helps a bit, but I guess I'm thinking way too logically to fully comprehend it.

no i don't belive it is a real question either, but it seems to confuse people! I had to think for a moment the first time i heard it.

i happen to be 6 and a half!
mentaly i'm even maybe 9!

Of course he can make a rock so big he can't lift it. And then, he can lift it.

oh, I think it's a real question... just one that's constructed as a trick.

Ok, Ok...let me reask if I may. Are you OK???I've noticed in your answers that you've been "crabby" lately.Is this "crabbiness" simply a phase? Which, if that is the case, it's OK. Sometimes it feels good to just be "crabby".

do you know any more questions like this one?

most "paradoxes" are just artifacts of the semantics of the questions... the paradox lies in the words, not in the nature of the thing... or in an incomplete understanding that is encapsulated in the question....

i agree, but you have to admit that paradoxes inspire thought, which is a good thing.

Yes, and God can lift it too. thats the cool thing about multiple dimensions.
I once wrote 22 (magic number) pages about entanglements of consciousness entitled "Can you make a rock so heavy you cant lift it?".

Just because there are infinite moments between the moments of moving your finger and reaching your nose doesn't mean all those moments aren't traversed or don't exist (within the realm of existence). I agree that the motion itself does not exist at all. Of all the components of existence, time is the one which controls the dimension of the others. We perceive a reality in which the speed of light is a constant, but who said that was really true. A few facets of my own experience suggest that it is not.

As long as you exist in your current state I suggest you continue believing as you are, but had you even considered the possibility that could annihilate the milky-way and all souls within it in the blink of an eye? Fortunately are being is not a separate creation from God, but is made of the consciousness of God, so unless God opts entirely not to exist then we will be around in some form or another. (The milky way (and all matter) could still be evaporated though).

I suppose... most people I find arguing about them are just chasing their tails. If paradoxes inspire you to think about the underlying semantic problems then I agree they're valuable, but if they just inspire you to play word games then I think they're a waste of time.

I don't like to argue. that's why you won't find me commenting on religion, becase i don't agree with anyone. politics is mainly the same thing. since i am an anarchist, i am a minority. but i have an open mind and any argument or question that makes me think is a good one. i look forward to good arguments and questions from the members of survey central.

22 is my signiture number. i have it tattooed on my hand.
i was born on the 23rd and i know 23 is a magic number too (23 skiddoo, st johns eve), but 22 has just got the better ring to it.

I was born mar.23 A huge percentage of the numbers I attract are 22. It is the primary number of language and metaphysics. It is the number of the Universe tarot card. Decimal is a consideration. I just broke up 777 to 3*7*37 and 666=18*37. 7+7+7=21 6+6+6=18 They are combos 3*37 or 111 of course, 1+1+1=3. 18 is the moon, 1+8 is the hermit. That adding to reduce is called gymatria. This is the first moment I bothered to dissect these #'s.

A particularly fun challenge is finding the ways in which you do agree with others in spite of it all. Substitute the term 'exploratory debate' for 'arguement'. Agree with people and they are open minded. If you can not agree (at least as a sub-dimension), you aren't really being open minded are you? Being all paradigms is a blast.

*shrugs*

Yeah, I've been in really awful mood lately. I can't really tell what's up with me. I guess that I will be nicer from now on because I started going out with that guy that I really like.

sure i don't consider these surveys arguments. but like for example, i am not a christian, but i will no longer go up to a christian and say 'there is no such thing as sin' or 'you can save yourself you don't have to have to accept christ to do it' because those words do lead to arguments often. so i don't say much when i see people talking about religion. that is a good area for an open mind though.

Zeno's Paradox:
A man cannot ever get anywhere. The reason is that he must first go half way, then when he gets half way, he must go half way of the remaining distance, then half way of the remaining distance, ad infinitum. He thus is forever getting half way to his goal, never reaching it.

Therefore: All motion is an illusion.
Checkout: http://www.allthatcounts.com/misc/zeno.htm

eventually you're going to hit your mark though. The thought of only making it half way is absurd.

It makes a great metaphor for spiritual evolution. I think Oscar's a delightful example of how the tree of knowledge has kept away reaching with the innocence of a child. She'll arrive at her destination with that lack of thinking. Scientific understanding is divisive in nature.

Now there is the finest application of Zeno's Paradox I have ever heard: spiritual evolution. Maybe physically Zeno's Paradox is a bust, but spiritually it seems right on target.

As so it must be. It's about the path because the ultimate destination, merging with god, is infinite creation, and infinity is the lack of limitation which is the mechanism of perception. With the ultimate merging, there is not separation between God as perceiver, and God as creator, therefore no tree in the garden/forest.

I bet you read Gödel-Escher-Bach.

Yes, I have! I love that book. I loaned it to someone and never got it back. It is not readily available overseas.

Yahoo!!! It always helps to have someone you're fond of in your corner. I AM sorry though that you've been in an awful mood. Just remember that it only HAS to get better!

It's ok.
We already broke up (don't ask why; fight between friends and stuff like that), but I'm over him now, so I will be nice.

too many cutesy options. There's been rather an epidemic of cutesy round here lately. It's tiresome. The question was also very unimaginative. Well, go ahead! Ask about the tree falling in the forest, or the sound of one hand clapping!

Cody, thank you for the most original analysis of that question I have seen yet.
But you miss the whole concept in literalizing it. The whole rock-lifting part is completely metaphoric, and the gist of the question has nothing whatever to do with gravity, so you can forget leaving room for something for the rock to be attracted to. It is a philosophical question, which when boiled down to its pith, can be phrased thus:
"Can an infinite force generate a barrier to itself?"
And your math is not nearly as waterproof as you want everyone to believe. God, I'd love to get an old friend of mine in here!

People who pride themselves on their tottering knowledge of Baby Calculus...

Ohhh. That sucks. But at least you can now move on.
Before I had met my hubby, I was SOOOO hooked on this one guy in particular. I totally thought that we were supposed to be. WELL....needless to say, that things didn't exactly work that way. Which is/was OK. For if I would've forced things to work, I wouldn't be here right now. Come to think of it, during that time, I too was pretty dogy and moody and things. Funny how "we" can let a penis affect our moods so much!
Are you in college? Is that why you won't be on this summer???

No, I'm in the High School. I'm going to Germany to visit my cousins, and they don't have Internet access.

WOW!!!
Germany is pretty cool. I personally have never been there or any foriegn country for that matter,excpet Canada.
Are you going to be near Amsterdam???
Anyhow, have an awesome time and be sure to take a lot of pics!

No; but I've been to Amsterdam.

Really!?!
How was it? I've always wanted to go for a visit, just once...ok...maybe twice.

It's really nice. The city is old, and the streets just look magical. I was kind of young when I went there (seven), so I don't really remember things in details.

Sounds lovely. Do you think that you will go back?

Hopefully...

Well, I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. For you are the only person "I know" who has EVER been to Germany.

You have entirely missed the point of the question.
The questions main use is really in a 3 step anti-god proof... it is an attempt to deny the possibility of an 'omni-potent'.
Thats what I am arguing against, and I make the question literal, in my attempt to show that it is really problematic to ask questions of this sort... obviously, I can, and am willing to, explain the same thing to you in a different and more complicated way, but, unfortunately, it is difficult to communicate in abstracts.
'All that can be said can be said clearly.
All that can be thought can be thought soundly.
But not all that can be thought, can be said.'
(Or something along those lines?).
Basically, I have no problem thinking in terms of higher order abstract logic, BUT, I do have a problem speaking, especially in a text-only format, on things of such a nature, so in order to simplify, we make things concrete in various ways and through our analysis of those concrete manifestations, attempt to 'convey' the abstract 'point'. (See text beginning at 'The point...'

Actually... I pride myself on my solid knowledge of Theoretical Physics. :).
Try reading 'The Feynman Lectures on Physics', it will do you some good, and you can replace your jealous attacks with logical ones :).

I just watched a movie about Feynman a couple nights ago:
*** Infinity, Matthew Broderick - A nuclear scientist (Richard Feynman) works on the Los Alamos project while courting his dying newlywed.
**** Insignificance - about a meeting between Einstein and Monroe was better in my opinion though. The 1953 screenplay was even more fascinating though since it described nano-technology (as Soliflux).
Do you read Heisenburg and Hawkings too?
I remember when I was a kid reading Hillaire Cuny's "Einstein. The Man and his theories." I was also reading a collection of fiction shorts at the same time. The next story was about a scientist inventing a super-weapon. The other character gave the scientist's 7 year old son a handgun, to which the scientist responded that it was insane to give somenthing that powerful to someone who didn't have the wisdom not to kill themself with it.

"God's is a self-limited omnipotence, not through caprice or fancy, but because anything else would be in contradiction with [his] very being. For beyond power, the dominant and conditioning fact is that the being of God is love." - Jacques Ellul - Anarchy and Christianity

Excellent. I'll have to pick that up and see if, as I imagine, it's a more generally accessable recommendation than the esoteric materials I suggest to people.

It is pretty straightforward. I'm about halfway through at the moment, and quite enjoying it.

Do you tend to run more often across reading material that explains what you just discovered on your own, or that which plants seed for you to explore?

Good question..... at the moment I seem to be finding things that explain and expand on what I've discovered, or that I've already read in a different light. I seem to go through phases...

i like your axiom refering to putting thoughts into words. i have a problem with that sometimes.