Do you approve of the raid which removed Elian from his Florida relatives?

We can't be shure what the exact situation is.

They should have done this months ago.

finally, the kid is together with his dad again. my god.

Strider: Whatever the situation is, it is sufficiently analogous to international child abduction that the US had to do this if it ever wanted to do anything about children being abducted overseas from the US. The fact that it has waited this long is already a huge problem. And I think that no matter what is going on in this case, leaving Elian in Florida was not worth jeopardizing future US children for.

I caught some of this, wasn't really following the story closely. I will make two points about this:

1. Anti-Castro Cubans in Florida have way too much political power.

2. If the US Government keeps dealing with situations like this, they are only asking for trouble from all those secret militia groups.

Yes. I think if this thing had been handled better this action wouldn't have been necessary, but as the situation stood, it was.

I believe a six-year-old child belongs with its parent(s) under nearly all circumstances. I also think we already have enough illegal aliens streaming into this country, and I think we'd set a dangerous precedent here by letting him stay. I don't think this case should be tried in family court, because neither Elian nor his father are citizens of the US; the father does not pay taxes to help run the court, nor should he be bound by laws of a country not his own. I don't sympathize with the Miami relatives. They could have made this thing easier on Elian by allowing him visits with his father in the first place, and by keeping him away from the media more. And I don't think Clinton or Reno showed good leadership here in letting the situation escalate the way it did. All around, there were a lot of mistakes made.

zang: anti-castro cubans are a prime example of the sort of special interest group the Constitution was specifically written to protect.

phi: Protect from what? These are the people who have written the American foreign policy on dealings with Cuba. I can't imagine any group of expats in this country (Canada) having the kind of power over foreign policy that they do.

NEWSFLASH: CANADIAN EMBARGO AGAINST INDIA OVER KALISTAN INDEPENDENCE

I don't think so.

But I'm not so narrow minded that I'm willing to listen to new ideas. Please, fill me in if there is something I'm missing here.

oops just noticed some typos...should read: Khalistan,...unwilling

He should have been returned to Cuba long ago... but I think it was handled a little bit too violently.

Strongly approve. If my child was being held for five months and the people holding him threatened violence against anyone who came in to get him, I hope the feds would do exactly what they did Saturday.

they: I can sympathize with those who feel the raid was too violent, but think of it this way. The relatives implied on more than one occasion that they were armed and would use violence if the Feds came in. In a hostage situation where the culprits say they're armed, you have no choice but to assume that's the truth. They went in there in the wee hours of the morning, clearly having planned the raid down to the last detail (I understand they built a mock-up of the house to practice), went in quick and got the kid. It appears to have been done in a very professional manner from what I've seen and heard. Yes, they were armed but it would have been foolish not to be; and fortunately not a shot was fired. That picture of the guy with the rifle is an intimidating image, but I don't see a more peaceful way they could have extricated him. If they just walked in unarmed and demanded the kid, they would have walked out of there empty-handed at best, or not walked out of there at all. I think it was the only way to do it but I'm open to hearing other ideas...

I don't really care.

Although, when I really think about it (haven't thought about the whole elian thing at all) his mother did die so he could be here in America.............AGAIN! We should have minded our own fudging business, leave it to the fudging family to decide.

mary: Entering the country in that fashion is against the law. The fact that his mother died is very sad, but it's not relevant. If his mother had died robbing a bank because she wanted Elian to be wealthy, we would not let him keep the money. Laws have been broken, therefore it's our business. And we are leaving it to the family to decide...the only family member who has any right to make that decision, Elian's father.

I supported returning the boy to his father, but I'm not particulary happy with the way the removal was handled.

The timing of things was pretty poorly handled, the rescue should have been done weeks ago.

But given the timing, I think the way the raid was done was just about right. Enough of a threat of force to keep the crowd of protesters at bay, or to overwhealm the people in the house if they had a few guns.

If Reno had sent a couple of agents to politely request the boy and were rebuffed, the raid probably would have had to break through a human chain of protesters determined to keep Elian. Or Elian might have been moved into hiding. Things could easily have turned out much worse with a more mild approach.

Naw, they didn't beat them enough

If my wife's uncle and her cousins were holding my daughter because they felt they could provide for her better than I could then I would want the police to do whatever is necessary to get her back. Then I would press charges. Of course I'm an American citizen with more rights than a Cuban living in Cuba.

I don't know. I understand why they did it, and I understand the reasoning on both sides of the issue. However, I can't seem to decide who is right. Maybe no one is.

Gotta love that photo of the guy with the gun and the scared kid in the closet!

WHERE ELSE COULD SOMEONE KEEP A CHILD FROM HIS LEGAL FAMILY WITHOUT BEING CHARGED WITH KIDNAPPING???? IF HE WERE A CITIZEN OF THIS COUNTRY HE WOULD HAVE BEEN RETURNED IMMEDIATELY TO HIS FAMILY.

On the other hand, Elian will probably be kept from his father when he returns to Cuba as well. I understand they take kids away from their folks at age 7 for a few years, to indoctrinate them into Communism...

it is worth noting that the people who were holding elian had said in early april that they would not give up the kid and that force would be required.

Isn't "Elian" a fancy/expensive kind of bottled water?
Bottled in Cuba, not available in the U.S. because of trade restrictions...

The U.S. Government broke several laws by handling the situation as they did. The administration (Clinton, Gore, Reno) are abusing their power. Castro himself has said that when the child returns to Cuba, he will not be with his father, he will become a ward of the Cuban Government. This issue was not about "Parental Rights" because in Cuba as well as any communist nation, the parents have no rights! We have LAWS that are to guarentee the asylum and protection of ALL Cuban's who arrive at our shores and the U.S. Gov't is obstructing Elian's rights in this regard...The U.S. Gov't is not allowing Elian to even be seen by his lawyers! The U.S. Gov't is abusing power that parallel's to the Communists and the Nazis. Remember, this is not about "parental rights"...in Cuba, parents HAVE NO RIGHTS!

A#2:

they should bring him back to cuba. that's where he came from, that's where he should stay.

Everyone back to the home of their ancestors. If you have a 1/16 native american however you may stay as a casino employee.

sequel: You're joking, right?

Pollerbear, I have to ask about a few points you made (and make a few counterpoints)...

> The U.S. Government broke several laws by handling the situation as they did.<

Which laws? Please specify.

> The administration (Clinton, Gore, Reno) are abusing their power.<

In what regard? Please specify.

> Castro himself has said that when the child returns to Cuba, he will not be with his father, he will become a ward of the Cuban Government.<

And yet the father still wants to return to Cuba with his son, as is his right under U.S. law. We may not agree with that decision, but I'm sure Elian's father isn't telling you how to raise your son.

> This issue was not about "Parental Rights" because in Cuba as well as any communist nation, the parents have no rights!<

We are not in Cuba. We are in the U.S., where parents do have rights, including the right to return to their homeland.

> We have LAWS that are to guarentee the asylum and protection of ALL Cuban's who arrive at our shores and the U.S. Gov't is obstructing Elian's rights in this regard<

Not ALL Cubans are guaranteed asylum, only those who request it and can demonstrate persecution. Elian, through his only legal representative (his father), has done neither.

>...The U.S. Gov't is not allowing Elian to even be seen by his lawyers!<

Hogwash. The government is not allowing the Miami relatives' lawyers to see Elian, at Elian's father's request. Elain's and his father's lawyers have full access.

> The U.S. Gov't is abusing power that parallel's to the Communists and the Nazis.<

Hardly. That's an insult to those persecuted by the Communists and Nazis.

> Remember, this is not about "parental rights"...in Cuba, parents HAVE NO RIGHTS!<

And again, we're not in Cuba.

YES. The relatives should be jailed for kidnaping. His father wanted him back, he should be with his father. I also realize Elian will have to go back to Cuba and attend military school for the next however many years (against his will) but no one said life was fare.

Elian's "family" should not have pushed the government to the point of no return.

yes...the child belongs with his father. it is awful what they put that child through .. when they showed the pictures of when he was reunited with his father you could just see how happy that boy was

I believe Eilan belongs with his father, BUT I do not approve of the way it was accomplished. That kind of kidnapping could traumatize the kid for life.

While I suspect there had to be a better way, I think the time had long
past for the boy to be reunited with his dad.

Monkeys would have handled the situation much differently...

Pollerbear: I agree with your entire statement. I think this a blatant misuse of power by the government. I ask you, why should the government, to this extent, be involved?

Jeanne: If someone was holding your child and refused to turn him over to you, how would you go about getting him back without some sort of police intervention? Isn't it part of the governments job to enforce the law? Surely a hostage situation qualifies, no?

I ask you why should the government, with a young child being held captive against his parent's will, not be involved?

[Warning!: What follows is rather lengthy and involved...my apologies to anyone who'd rather not deal with it. Please feel free to skip to the next comment.]

Jeanne: After a few hours of contemplation, I find I must add to the comments I posted earlier. Before I do so, I must raise a point that I hope will open this topic to further rational debate:

It is my observation, one that I believe I can back up with at least a half-dozen specific examples, that when I have raised a reasoned yet contrary response to a point you have made in this forum, it has been your consistent practice to ignore my points. Your limited response to me, when it has been at all extant, has led me to conclude that you are not filtering me and therefore you are in fact exposed to my stated points of view whether you choose to respond to them or not. I raise this issue in the hopes that you will exhibit the moral strength to continue this dialogue with me rather than simply letting it pass unchallenged. It is my hope that we will continue in a spirit of mutual respect, as has always been my intention. Moving on...

You have stated many times in this forum that you revere the white man above all other mortal beings (assuming as we will for these purposes that Jesus was not mortal - the fact that he was not white needn't enter into this discussion). I must ask how you would react to this situation were Elian's father a white man. Would you be so ready to presume to make basic parental decisions for this man were he Caucasian? Let us presume that this is your son, the child of a white man. Your husband wants your son returned to him. Will you defy your husband and tell him that the child is better off with this family of strangers who have assembled an angry mob around them for the purpose of attracting greater media attention? Perhaps you will disregard Scripture entirely by suggesting that the stated desires of the child should override all other points of view, including those of his parents (whom he is obliged by the fifth commandment to honor)? Or will you stand by this white man, this personification of all that is good and wise in the world (in your stated view), and demand that your child be returned? If you will insist in this scenario that the child should not be reunited with his father, then I would suggest that your adherence to Scripture, and to your own previously stated convictions, is severely compromised. On the other hand, if you would demand that the son and father be reunited, it begs the question as to whether your presumed superiority of opinion is based solely on the race of the father. I would appreciate a response to this point.

This man, regardless of his race, is a father; he is the sole living parent of this child. It is his will that the child be in his custody, as I hope you'll agree is his right according to Scripture. Can you cite the Scripture where it says that the uncle and the cousin shall have authority over the father in matters concerning his son? Can you quote for me the passage wherein the distant relative is justified in threatening violence against the person who would reunite the son with the father? Please answer these questions; do not ignore them if your faith is sincere. As one who has what I believe to be a reasonable understanding of Scripture, I find your position blasphemous and would be curious to hear your defense. Please expound upon the Scriptural justification for holding a child hostage on the grounds that one opposes the laws and customs of the father's homeland.

I sincerely hope that you do not pass up this opportunity to exhibit your convictions as casually as you have appeared to do so often in the past.

Zang: you're right. In my last statement, 'protect' is incorrect. I should have said 'empower'. The electoral college and Senatorial representation scheme are designed to give power to regional swing voters, specifically because regional swing voters were who, in the early 1890s, could have scuttled the constitution entirely.

Zang: No, I wasn't joking. I don't know much about this, but I have heard on the news that little kids in Cuba are taken away from their parents for a few years and sent to youth camps where Communist principles are indoctrinated into them.

Is this or is this NOT the melting pot of the world the USA,arent we the one that proclaim freedom of choice for the people?

He should be with his REAL father

hey elian could you move your foot, you're standing on
my country! check out my political humor page at
http://www.mp3.com/6dollarmicrophone/
..
yes, I approve of the raid, haul the kid back to cuba, I'm sick
of seeing him on tv. :)

I think the kid should have been sent back to Cuba eight o'clock day one. I still don't really understand why he wasn't. I guess he's just a lot cuter than most of the Cubans who show up off the coast of Florida, and somebody got so caught up in that that they forgot to deport him.

Only a bunch of communists and jack booted thugs would approve of the government action. Regardless of how anyone feels about the situation, the government's intrusiveness is scary. I guess Bill doesn't think gun control should apply to the government. No wonder the founding fathers sought to protect our right to keep and bear arms. Think about it. Where was the trigger lock?

BTW...I love how these good intentioned, but sadly misled individuals believe the end justifies the means.

[mode=cliche]
"You're nothing but a bunch of drug pushing hippie communists!"
[end mode]

He was illegally here and that means that the government has the right to do what they want to get him out of the country. He has no rights because he is not a citizen of the USA and his family in the states has no authority over/for him because Papa Elian is still alive.

Sorry I dont know what your talking about......