How long should one live as if they have to live?

um... 5 years?

the question seems kind of absurd the more I think about it

I don't really think it is a good idea to look at life this way. This is kind of unanswerable in that regard.

Well, I know you're supposed to be financially secure for like, six months..But, you can't really answer this. You need to just live. Don't be too concerned about when you're going to die.

The dang question makes no sense. The explanation a bit more.

My answer is just live and not consider this at all. Every time you leave the house you may not return alive. Too many variables, freak occurances, murders, etc.

My method is at the end of the day when I get into bed I say to myself "I've survived another day, and one less day to get through on this planet".


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Hah, makes sense it's by Kristal_Rose - always a bit abstract in thinking.

There's that saying "Live each day like your last" but that's not really a good guideline for most people.

Don't understand the question or the explanation.

I'm thinking two years might be about right, maybe five. As far as meeting strangers though, more 1 minuteish.

Huh. Maybe I have a perspective on life which other people don't suffer from. I have like 1200 projects on the drawing board, and attending to any of them takes away from social time. Completing all of it would likely take me 300 years, and so I should probably toss materials for projects that I won't get around to for another 40 years, if only I could prioritize which ones those were. If I were only living a year, for instance, I'd give up on building a solar steam moped for camping trips in the future. If I were only living 10 years I might not try to become a billionaire before attempting global environmental technology changes. The appropriate game plan depends on how long you have to work with.

I get distressed that I might only have another 30 years, and much more distressed that I might only have a year. So far this first 46 years has been what I'd call a preparation phase, learning all my arts and sciences to accomplish something. Already I'm writing off any plans which would further entail a 12 year physics degree.

Also, if I'm busy doing all this engineering stuff first, I may not be physically fit to enjoy living in a bamboo beach hut 40 years later, or even bicycling to Costa Rica.

Do other people not have long term planning issues, or just live as if they don't exist? That no one else even much understands the question suggests a much different outlook, and I'm curious what that might be.

Well, in simple terms, I had and have goals, both short term and long term. Most are short term and have been achievable...having to do with work, social life or traveling. Long term consists of financial planning and independence/security. And then I take the steps to reach them without forethought that I am working with a time limit. Does that answer your question?

I'm taking that to mean that you intuitively have a feel for what goals are possible for you to achieve without using a computer to sort it all out, and that your emphasis is on the living which occurs along the way, the end goals not being so paramount, but more just a course.

I have been slightly migrating my planning to a more life-style than goal-based system.

Achieving independence/security isn't really much of an accomplishment goal so much as another means itself (unless one chooses to frame it as such). Travelling too is a lifestyle if done all along and not as an eventual permanent lifestyle change.

I have 5400 personal folders on my computer of plans I've made (or their resources). I'm getting to a point in life where planning alone is no longer satisfying. I kind of don't know how to switch mode though, as it's all I've ever done. Even at age three I was filling my sketch book with plans for 40 years later.

I do think you're fairly different than most people in this respect. It seems like a mild form of mania or grandiose delusions to me sometimes. That probably sounds more negative than I mean it, though. It's part of your charm. But, when you talk about stuff like that it seems impractical to me.

But, I really don't have many goals in my life. So, I might be fairly unusual in the other direction.

I always think I should act as if I'm living, not as if I'm dying. So I never think about this. I live as if I'm human; as if I'm probably going to live to about 75 (before considerations for short-sightedness, left-handedness, and vegetarianism). But it's not 'living as though I have 57 years left' - what even is that? How am I meant to let my life unfold as only constantly drawing the short straw? Why live in nihilism like that? So I'm alive, and that's good.

I think you are different than most, when it comes to the number of things you have on your to-do list.

People (rare people) accomplish such things, and I have a high IQ, creativity, and tons of training, thus nothing seems to me to be a grandiose delusion except the range and quantity of what I want to accomplish. I easily could have outdone Bill Gates except that he had connections, business tactics, and a focused game plan that I did not. He didn't get where he got by happenstance. When he was young he set himself the goal of making a million dollars a minute, which he eventually achieved. I doubt I would have called him grandiose at that time either.

You made some websites, learned ray-tracing, photography, and such. I think that's more ambitious than most people get these days.

I think what's manic about me is that I fully invest my occupation with whatever recently sparks my interest and blow that up into some global pioneering project, then shelf it as the next month takes on an entirely new interest to dedicate my whole life to. One week it's writing a new type of js based 2+3D bas-relief diorama game renderer, next week it's a pneumatic-reed cello. I could do any of them if I just stuck to something, but only designing/planning moves conceptually fast enough to keep my interest.

My mom pointed out to me that just because I can do something doesn't mean I have to or should. One problem I have here is that if I come up with something cool I could do, like paint batik tapestries to cover my cabinets, it's permanently on my list as something I feel I should get around to doing because otherwise I'm wasting cool inspiration (besides, I want the thing). It pains me when I toss parts for some project like a solar water evaporation distiller which would still be a good thing to accomplish, but I'm seeing now that I probably won't have to time to get around to finishing it in the next 40 years as hundreds of other projects have higher priority now that my initial enthusiasm has worn off, even if that means I do have to drink LA tap water.

"How am I meant to let my life unfold as only constantly drawing the short straw?" - Could you explain that to me? I might have something to learn from you.

Maybe friends can help you complete some things?

Like waking up every day thinking you're losing out. Time is only ever 'running out'; you've only got less to time to do what you want and time has got one over on you. I couldn't do that. If you think like that all the time you're running yourself into the ground. So the best way, I think, is simply to forget about it. I don't mean, never finish anything. Just live because you're alive; you're not in a race to get things done before the clock runs out; there's no judge who's gonna say 'Ooh, you didn't do enough' at the end of it all apart from yourself. So... go with a good pace, not against the clock. Or something.

That I'm absolutely sure of. I'm almost adding something to my to-do list with every moment of thought, 24/7. I spend more hours per day adding things to the list than I do knocking them off, now that I think of it. Seen in that light, no wonder I'm having difficulty keeping up with my list. Unfortunately the list is so large that I probably spend at least an hour per day just managing it. Even with spread sheets I can forget some whole category like preparing for christmas vacation or that I'm a college student or something else major I'm theoretically committed to.

"Maybe friends can help you complete some things?" - I wish. Most of it requires my expertise. I spent nine months training an assistant programmer before he ran off to get paid well and immediately. I'm gearing up I think up to train a neighbor to fabricate electronic devices I'm designing for a client, plus my own digital instruments when I can return to that project. That's about as simple as projects I can hand out go. It's all stuff I invented so no one else knows how to do it yet. To be sure there's ton's of trivial details like sewing together panels of a solar paraglider or something though. Unfortunately I don't make money on anything yet to hire people.

Yeah, ok, I guess that what I figured you meant.

I do feel like that if I don't accomplish as much as Einstein, Edison, Disney, Roosevelt, Gandhi, Gates, &/or Da Vinci, that I've failed at what I was designed on this earth to do. Because I can do such things, and they would be useful to the world, I feel obligated to do them. I notice that the world will go on fine wihout me, but when I adopt that perspective I no longer see a purpose in living. Unless I'm thoroughly engrossed &/or creatively productive, or learning something in the process, or too burned out to work, I feel guilty about pausing for entertainment.

The truth is that the clock is ticking, and getting realistic in recent years means frequently having to scratch projects off my to-do list for no other reason than lack of time, and yet you underscore something that is happening to me; I hate time, hate having to acknowledge it at all and just wish life were eternal with no deadlines on anything, and yet indeed, I have that feeling you describe of beating the clock driving me into the ground. I don't race the clock, as I don't actually sense the passing of time as most people doand just get lost in whatever I'm doing, but everytime I pause to look at the list (which is all through the day) I do see it as a losing battle, and that alone wears me out. I suppose a better philosphy to adopt would be 'Whatever I accomplish is good enough'. I can see that it's endless. If I actually finished everything on my list I'd be figuring out how to save what the world is likely to become 300 years from now (I actually think about that sort of thing at times).

At least I have my guitar playing. That's the one place where I get in a pure living mode. When I thought to do it as a career though, I ended up with a huge list of things to study, projects to create, equipment and instruments to build, etc. etc. It all switched from spontaneous creation to goal planning. I could just drift from project to project spontaneously without the goal hang-up, but then I'd be multi-tasking way to much to finish anything. Actually it's extremely rare that I finish anything now before moving on to something new.

Now that I come back to my original question, a philosphy won't answer my issue. Knowing what to best work on still requires knowing how much time I have to work with unless I also decide that it doesn't matter 'which' projects I choose to work on. Maybe it doesn't. Maybe I could have answered the world's energy needs, but it's fine that I chose to jam on guitar with neighbors instead. On the other hand I'm also frustrated with all the brilliant answers folks like Buckminster publicised that the world never acted upon anyhow. During the Carter era we know that we needed to have wind and solar power electrifying freeway lanes for electric cars but did nothing about it at the time. I suppose I have a bit of a Cassandra complex too. My consolation there is that in the scheme of the universe and intergalactic reincarnation, it probably doesn't really matter if the whole human race is wiped out or not.

It is not so much that you start projects and then do not complete them, it is more that you do not execute them to begin with. You may want to examine: 'why 5400?' Somehow, your desire to create(invent) them is greater than your desire to put them in motion ....or you would be doing that. I, also, think that 'thought to action' may be a factor in your situation, as well. Obviously, well thought out plans include 'how' to execute them as part of their creation...so I venture to say that you merely conceptualize these projects, and then go no further. And this is not very productive, as I am sure that you are aware of. So, you are skipping the middle step....forming plans to execute your projects (which is a vital step) is midway between 'conceptualizing and execution'. Of course this paralyzes you. It's like discovering how to stand up...and contemplate running before you have even tried to walk. I would work on fewer plans and then follow the logical sequential steps.
As for your statement on a goal of independence/security...you are partially correct. Once coming to fruition, I no longer can really call it a goal. I guess to achieve this 'lifestyle' ,completing a series of simpler tangible short term goals (relating to the desired lifestyle) will, inevitably, bring me to this place. I still think that it can termed as a long term goal, though. As for traveling, no...there are specific places that I want to go in this world for specific reasons and they are goals. Goals do not have to serve as a permanent lifestyle change. That is not how they are defined...and they are relatively short term as a destination is planned and visited in a short period of time.

Once I've planned something, it's kind of done for me anyhow. The rest is just trivial grunt work, time not spent thinking up something new. I do go so far as to buy materials for projects, but that doesn't take up too much time either.

I come up with plans too. If I'm really out of it, I will write down detailed plans about what order to sweep and mop the floor in, without having what it takes to escape my chair. No, most of my stuff is more than conceptualized, and is thought out as thoroughly as possible without some physical experimentation required. I often get in a state where physically moving is like walking through molasses and only on paper am I eager to jump and sprint. There's some kind of wall of resistance to break through, and doing so seems to require hot summer weather, dance music, enthusiastic conversational neighbors.. My life is a bit like people who have nightmares that they worked all night, and are exhausted without having actually accomplished anything. In my case, I enjoy the inventing and get exhausted planning the chores, which rarely get done either, so much as planned and re replanned.

Software programming has actually been my most productive because it's actually all planning. One plans the basic map, then plans out smaller and smaller details until it's complete, and never leaves their chair or sees the light of day. It's not that I don't want to be a physical person, I crave it, but it seems like a distant dream, and I apparently subconsciously undermine my attempts at getting there, for instance by waking up at sunset when I'm no longer in the mood for dancing around.

You bring up one heavy issue though, 'sequential'. This is what paralyzes me. I can't decide whethar to take a shower or make breakfast first, and can take two hours debating the issue. I think I have some sense that there are grave consequences for doing anything in a less than perfectly efficient sequence, and yet the ultimate repurcussions of choices are more than I can ever juggle in my head. Rationally I know that doing either first is better than thinking about it for two hours, but that doesn't seem to help much.

I guess I think of goals more as landmarks, though I see how achieving a state of living further without working is an objective with a path.

Another little detail of my psyche is that I actually feel kind of depressed when I complete something, like it's died. I don't dwell on the past for a minute.

You certainly bring up two important elements involved in the production process. Stimulation and motivation. You seem to lack both of them. The need for stimulation is physical (in your case). Your engine stops when you self-contain yourself but you DO recognize that a certain amount of stimuli is needed just to grease the wheels. Being in an active work environment with impute coming at you in all directions would be helpful, but I know that you have disabilities and you choose not to investigate that avenue. So, like a vortex, you spin downward until you are unable to remove yourself from your chair. Motivation is a bit more cerebral and has more to do with the possessing a positive outlook and a general 'excitement' at the prospect of completing a project. Visualizing the benefits assist with motivation...but in your case, this process (if it even occurs) is not strong enough, in nature, to motivate you into action. Purchasing all the supplies for 5400 project must be very costly if they are not put to use. So, you have stated that you do more than just conceptualize....you say that you have the knowledge to plan a step-by-step blueprint to create each project. Having this skill, why are you unable to decide between breakfast and a shower? And if you are 'list oriented'...then just create a daily list and stick to it. If you are able to do that, why not do that regarding a project? I sense that your creations are very complicated and overwhelming....so simply choose easier projects. But I am sure that you know this. I do not know what you mean when you say, "When I am really out of it". I do not know if your are talking about medication or a psychological disorder (or both) so I must let that go. On the very plus side, your awareness of your behavior is a key element in altering it.

I'm even worse off in settings like lab-work classrooms, actually. I can't concentrate on what I'm doing. On the other hand, I'm most physically adept in my life responding to other people's concerns in such settings where I am detached from my own process burdens. I can see what to do quite clearly when it's not my life in question.

Planning is immensely stimulating for me, so much so that I pace with excitement. I have no motivation for anything however, and in fact seem to have what you could call anti-motivation. 'Having' to do so something, unless it borders on life threatening and I'm forced to trudge through until the wall lifts, is almost a guarantee that I won't do something. Most of my accomplishments finally happen when I wasn't planning to do them at all. I also find I get a lot of stuff done when it's replacement project arrives, for (fabricated) instance, finally assembling a bicycle when I have to get rid of it to make room for a moped assembly project.

I suppose just as the physical world almost seems a distant dream at times, even more so is the prospect of a future. I might long to tan at the beach, but I never go through the steps to get there, and it's not till I actually do get there somehow that I really recall (in real-time feeling) why it was so conceptually important to me to get there. I have hardly any emotional memory to speak of, and now that I think of it, that faculty probably pertains hugely to projecting outcomes, having desires, and being motivated.

I've already concluded that living in the moment with one's feelings has a lot to do with manic-depression. If you don't recall happiness, and just what you're feeling at the moment, you're not going to be all that ambitious at seeking it out and stay stuck instead. When I'm down, conceptually I know that other states were certainly better than what's going on at the moment, but knowing that only adds to the sense of despair instead of being motivating.

I can 'visualise' the benefits, but one picture means just as much as another infortunately. Rationally I know that one picture would be happier than another, but that's about it. What's dawning on me in the course of this conversation is that motivation probably amounts to pulling oneself up by their bootstraps by emotionally visualising the future acting upon a course would achieve; borrowing from that future sort of. I have some recall of that. But I don't know how the average person ticks in this respect. Possibly motivation entails miserably trudging through something anyhow, and some other ingredient is involved in the mechanism.

Fortunately I've only equipped myself for about 400 projects. Many of the 5400 projects are software projects and fortunately have no expense. But yeah, it is a costly approach. Fortunately there turns out to be a lot of cross-over in materials. I can make most anything I want to here, and have spent years salvaging anything in the alley which pertains to anything on the drawing board.

The downside to that is the desperate fix I'm in now, five days away from an apartment inspection which determines my rent subsidy. Last year they said I had too much stuff (in this studio apartment with skinny kitchen) so I had to miss Christmas and put 2/3rds of my stuff in storage for 7 months so I could rearrange it tighter. Essentially I just lost a whole year I could have spent on projects to manage storage of unfinished project resources instead.

I said I create lists of what to do during the day, but I didn't say I stick to them. In fact I usually do anything except that which is on the list. Whatever is next on my list is for unknown reasons an exhausting prospect, say paying a bill or washing some knick-knacks. Fortunately I least wander around and attend to some other matters which were probably on my list at some time, and did at least need doing some time.

But no, I'm not all that good at sequencing on paper either. I can fill out a complete tree-branched picture of what all ultimately needs done though. If I had all the time in the world, planned on doing all of it, and did it all to suit only myself the decision process would be easier.

As is though, I don't know if I have time to finish the three-headed flamingo sculpture before the inspection, or if my friend would appreciate it now that it won't be going to my deceased son. If I do have the time, it should be done first because it would clear up a lot of room to do the rest of the repacking in. Maybe I'll have to stash it in the yard for the inspection, but it looks like rain which ruin it with rust before I had a skin on it. I could go on and on about just that sculpture, and it's catch-22 aspects, and the emotional/life-purpose deliberations and such, and that's just one of the 100 medium level details I have to attend to. I was thinking to make a project of putting fabric over my shelf fronts. I pretty much figured I didn't have time to make the batik forest scene I really wanted. Today I had an inspiration which killed two problems at once, hiding shelf clutter (well oragnized labelled boxes, but still clutter to someone else I expect) and the problem with clothes blocking the hallway, and that is to hang the clothes as a facade for the shelves. I guess you could say it was 'inspiration' (after nearly surrendering) on a useful thing to do first (very little catch-22 involved).

It's the repurcussions of anything involving what to do depending on how much time you have which really get me. My time estimates are often off 20 fold. I spent at least an hour today melting down a year of collected cheese-wheel wax into a can (could come in useful someday for painting that batik landscape I just mentioned). Things like that aren't even on my list, and I set about them as if they are five minute projects. Oh yeah, that's another issue I have. I don't seem to have any sort of editor which tells me I shouldn't be doing something, or that it's taking too much time. I could spend a lot of fully processing the recyclables. Generally I just sort of have to hope that I settle down in that mode in a project that's really worth doing, like some software I was writing, and not something I should care less about on the relative scale of importance.

Your not the first to suggest easier projects. Somehow though it's not really the complexity which makes them overwhelming. Deciding between a mechanical or microchip controller for an electric bike engine design really isn't much tougher than the breakfast or shower dilemna.

Extremely often I walk by a project, feel inspired to work on it (which is required to break that physical barrier), but then don't because I'm sure there must be something else I should be doing which is a much higher priority, though I'm not sure what, maybe starting on making this year's Christmas gifts or something. I'm fairly sure I accomplish the most when I feel it doesn't matter what I do, though as time goes on I get more desperate about completion deadlines, and those leisure times become rarer.

Much of what I know about my deficits comes by way of pattern observation, not by comprehension, and that which I have concluded isn't easy to work with, for instance getting things done when I don't feel I have to do them. How can one plan efficiently around that?

I just dumped a whole lot on you. Thanks for the attention and feedback.

I still get the feeling there's something I'm not seeing here, optimistically hoping for there being a chance at some revelation by which I could end the confusion and paralysis accomplish some goals. I know it's not laziness or idleness. My brother lived with me for a summer and said he's never seen anyone work as much as I do.

Come to think of it, while imbibed with a friend a couple of weeks ago I did have a slight revelation on the matter, that I was like an ivory tower commander, and that committing to any stream of action meant going from a state of infinite potential to being just one thing. It must take me ten millenia between lives to decide what to incarnate as. (Well actually it doesn't at all, I recall the last few in a row, usually artistic military officer inventors or wandering rabbi sorts if not both. What I'm doing now is much a replay of the russian composer Thomas de Hartmann life).

As long as the Good Lord permits. James 4: 14-15.- The Bible.