Would you feed a rat or mouse to a pet snake?

No. I couldn't do that. I like snakes but prefer they be able to roam outdoors and it would bother me to feed it another animal like that.

I do not like snakes.

This is where I struggle in life.

Firstly, I except that certain animals eat meat (and have to eat meat). Humans are omnivores, not carnivores. However, snakes need meat to survive.

I love snakes and would like to have one as a pet. However, I wouldn't feed a live rat or mouse to it. Why? Because, I would feel for the rat/mouse too much.

Hmmm...maybe some mixed up rat meat that is unrecognisable is the key, not that that is any different.

My life thoughts continue...

Excellent question

My wife has 2 snakes that she feeds previously frozen thawed mice and rats to. We have lots of frozen rodents in our freezer now.
I haven't feed them myself, but I would if my wife couldn't do it.

Yes, but only if it was humanely killed by someone else. I feed my snakes frozen/thawed mice & rats I purchase from companies/people who use CO2 to dispatch the rodents. If I absolutely had to kill it myself, I would use CO2 also before feeding it off. I will not feed live....too violent.

most people feed their snakes rodents that they purchase dead and frozen. you thaw it in some hot water and away you go! no need to feed live (it's actually dangerous to the snake) or kill it yourself. I can recommend a couple of good snake owner forums where you can learn more. I have a couple snakes myself and have *never* had a live rodent here.

are you in the UK? it is against the law to feed live animals to your snakes in the UK. So, frozen is the way to go for you even if you *did* have bloodthirsty ways.

> are you in the UK? it is against the law to feed live animals to
> your snakes in the UK. So, frozen is the way to go for you even if
> you *did* have bloodthirsty ways.

I am in the UK yes.

Thanks for the information. I think the odds on me getting a snake is unlikely, considering my girlfriend would walk out the door if a snake was brought within 20 miles of our house

Yes, I have fed many mice, rats and sometimes gerbils to a pet snake I used to have. I only used gerbils when the pet store was out of rats and mice.

yes

I will leave the snake-feeding up to Jen.

This is a terrible survey to be reading while I'm eating my breakfast...

No, I would kill any snake I ran across, unless it was someone else's pet

Sure. I think it would be fun to watch. I'm not sure if I would be able to go in the store, though, and buy a mouse or rat just to feed it to a snake. I might get attached to the rat on the way home. I'm actually considering getting a little mousey when my fish dies, so I'm sure if I do get a mouse, and he becomes my little friend, I won't want to feed HIM to a snake, specifically. I'm a little torn as to whether or not I want my fish to die. I love my fish. But I want a mouse. I want to use the tank as a cage for the mouse, you see.

Whatever I can get my hands on easier, really.

Although I would never have a snake as my pet.

Other--

Would I feed a rat or mouse that already is a domesticated pet to a snake? No!

Would I feed (or help the snake go get the rat itself) a stray rat or mouse that was a pest, that I would kill anyway? Yep, sure would.

Although why would I keep a snake as a pet anyway. They're cold blooded reptiles who could give two craps about you, because their pea brain isn't capable of affection.

> Although why would I keep a snake as a pet anyway. They're cold blooded
> reptiles who could give two craps about you, because their pea brain
> isn't capable of affection.

Yeah, but a ball python with its trademark gold spots against a black background looks cool wrapped around your neck. And going through a crowd is easier that way too as people stumble and leap out of your way. For some reason or another a lot of people are just terrified of snakes. I was almost always asked, "Is it poisonous?" Yeah, like I'm gonna walk around with a venomous viper wrapped around my neck...

Maybe it is their subtle way of asking "Are you crazy?"

> No, I would kill any snake I ran across, unless it was someone else's
> pet

Let's hope it gets to you first (in a light hearted way - so don't freak)

I hope it does, too. Then, I won't have to catch it; less effort for the kill.

Since the snake is a pet, yes.

I would never own a snake personally, but would pet-sit for a friend if asked to do so.

No, I couldn't feed a live animal to anything.

Of course...also fed pinkies to pet tarantula...

I don't have captured pets anymore. It just plain feels wrong. When I was up in the mountains my cats and dogs ran free and lived to old age. I moved to a town and I won't put them on a leash or house-bound. I have a feeling this is going to open a whole can of worms. Yikes!!!

> Although why would I keep a snake as a pet anyway. They're cold blooded
> reptiles who could give two craps about you, because their pea brain
> isn't capable of affection.

How do you know they are heartless with a pea brain? The bull snakes up in the wilds actually let you pick them up (they are boas) and are very affectionate and are a lot smarter than people.... they don't need money or lose in the stock market, they know enough to live long lives, and eat rattle snakes, yet ALWAYS is it the pea-brained human that yells, "SNAKE!!!" and kills it. Yeah, really smart.

I've never heard of a snake being affectionate. It sounds nice.

> I don't have captured pets anymore. It just plain feels wrong. When
> I was up in the mountains my cats and dogs ran free and lived to old
> age. I moved to a town and I won't put them on a leash or house-bound.
> I have a feeling this is going to open a whole can of worms. Yikes!!!

This is exactly how I feel. I don't like seeing any animals on a leesh, especially in a cage. No animals should be isolated like this.

I actually have two goldfish that were given to me as a present from my girlfriend. I wouldn't have bought them myself but because I had them in front of me, I decided that the best option was to keep them. I bought the biggest tank I could afford and they now have a great time.

Having kept rats in the past, I would struggle to do this. A dead rat maybe, but not a live one.

Wow. I sounded really grumpy. Sorry.

Hey, you could build a Koi pond where they will grow very big! I had some as a small kid named Simon and Garfunkel.

Yeah, my two babies, cats, both died just after I moved here but they were old and still roamed outside but kept inside at night (coyotes near by, which I very much love) but I live in a sort of out of city field and oak area. So no more pets. I cremated my cats and the next time I'm in Scotland maybe I'll bring them and set them free. :o) But, as a one-time international shipping manager I learned that the UK doesn't allow body parts into your country. Hummmmm... wonder why. :o)

> Hey, you could build a Koi pond where they will grow very big! I had
> some as a small kid named Simon and Garfunkel.
>
> Yeah, my two babies, cats, both died just after I moved here but they
> were old and still roamed outside but kept inside at night (coyotes
> near by, which I very much love) but I live in a sort of out of city
> field and oak area. So no more pets. I cremated my cats and the next
> time I'm in Scotland maybe I'll bring them and set them free. :o)
> But, as a one-time international shipping manager I learned that the
> UK doesn't allow body parts into your country. Hummmmm... wonder why.
> :o)

Unfortunately, I don't have access to a garden yet but I hope to have one next house I have (current house for sale). When I have a garden, I would love a pond.

Actually, right now, I am concerned with one of my goldfish. It is floating upside down in the evenings, even though he looks perfectly healthy, eats fine and swims fine. I have read online that is something to do with its swim bladder. Have you heard of this before?

Not unless the owner of the pet snake asked me to.

Yes, it is called Swim Bladder disease caused from a too fast change of water temperature, like when you clean the bowl. I know from some fish when my sister had some. Unfortunately, it is incurable... well, at least back then it was. I'm sorry. You'll see pet shops putting new fish in tanks in their bags full of water until the water slowly matches the tank. Maybe he'll be able to live ok.

> Yes, it is called Swim Bladder disease caused from a too fast change
> of water temperature, like when you clean the bowl. I know from some
> fish when my sister had some. Unfortunately, it is incurable... well,
> at least back then it was. I'm sorry. You'll see pet shops putting
> new fish in tanks in their bags full of water until the water slowly
> matches the tank. Maybe he'll be able to live ok.

1- There has been no change in the temperature since I have had them. I only ever change 10-20% of the water each week (which is what they say you should do and NO more). With the warmer weather, maybe it is slightly warmer but I wouldn't think too much more).

2-He looks absolutely fine, in fact looks great. He swims hard, eats well, can go up to the top and race down to the bottom. Just the last few nights, he has chilled out upside down, sometimes almost floating at the top. However, as soon as it sees me, he turns onto his front and races towards me.

I am starving both fish for 3 days and see if that helps. I have also been told to feed them some peas also.

Do I need to seperate the two fish so that the other one doesn't get infected?

Wow. I haven't a clue if the water hasn't been changed. Good idea to do a little at a time.

I want to say (could be wrong) I'm pretty sure it isn't infectious with other fish. Sort of like tumors aren't infectious (though some think you can catch cancer). Is there a reputable pet / fish shop you can ring to find out? I just remember my sister's fish but there are all kinds of myths that later in the years are dispelled. So maybe not swim bladder.

I hope he / she is going to be ok. I'll say a little fish prayer for him (being the little Pagan I am). My friend is a scuba instructor and I can't WAIT to be certified so I can go. He swims with dolphins.

> I hope he / she is going to be ok. I'll say a little fish prayer for
> him (being the little Pagan I am). My friend is a scuba instructor
> and I can't WAIT to be certified so I can go. He swims with dolphins.

I am starving both fish for three days and so how that helps. However, he seemed perfect yesterday and didn't swim or float upside side once! Hopefully, it is on its way out.

Regarding the swimming with dolphins, have a read of this:

http://www.wspa-usa.org/pages/538_apr_02_make_a_sp...

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/health/ar...

I have a pet rat so no

Ponder this...If you are Atheistic then where do your ideas that eating meat is cruel come from? Where do ideas of good and bad, cruel and not cruel come from if not the soul? If science is the answer then you should have no hesitation eating meat as you were born to do(look at your teeth darling one) along with grains veggies...etc...
I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs..just trying to add to your life thoughts
*kiss*
Nature is cruel(survival of the fittest)
I believe it is our divinity that speaks to what seems wrong to us(like your objective to killing beautiful creatures for food)
addendum:
Do not mistake my divinity for religious fervor or mental illness....I've just always felt something in me......bigger than me.....based in love(god).

> (look
> at your teeth darling one) along with grains veggies...etc...
> I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs..just trying to add to your
> life thoughts
> *kiss*
> Nature is cruel(survival of the fittest)
> I believe it is our divinity that speaks to what seems wrong to us(like
> your objective to killing beautiful creatures for food)
> addendum:
> Do not mistake my divinity for religious fervor or mental illness....I've
> just always felt something in me......bigger than me.....based in
> love(god).
>

I myself do not fully understand the argument based on human tooth structure. I look at my own teeth and compare that structure with other carnivores. They are not the same. Supposedly our canine teeth are for tearing meat, but they do not seem ideally situated for that. Human teeth to me bear a marked resemblance to teeth designed for clipping off vegetable matter and thoroughly grinding that to a digestible consistency. Understand though that I am not now a vegetarian (I have been in the fairly recent past and will be again sometime in the future). I like meat, I eat meat, though I do put some effort (and extra money) into looking for meat from humanely treated livestock. Wicksy has pointed out that humans are omnivores and I agree with that assessment. But so are pigs. And pigs teeth do not greatly resemble human teeth either. So I get confused with arguments based on tooth structure.

Nature seems cruel to human perception, but I do not believe nature is cruel. The concept of cruelty is predicated on the awareness of the creature inflicting it. Cruelty means causing pain or distress in another creature for the sake of observing that pain or distress. I do not believe that nature has any awareness of pain or distress in creatures.

As for the perception of divinity in the Universe, well, I just don't know. I am an agnostic. I admit the possibility of supernatural forces, but I cannot say of my own firsthand knowledge that they exist. What keeps me from being an atheist is my experience with psychedelics. Under the influence of psychedelics, there certainly seems to be a perception of other forces at work in the physical realm that I cannot account for in rational terms. I have occasionally experienced telepathic and clairvoyant episodes under the influence of psychedelics, and sometimes in a completely sober state as well. But I don't see this as proof of the existence of supernatural forces, just evidence. And questionable evidence at that.

But what does your heart tell you in the quiet places?

> But what does your heart tell you in the quiet places?

It tells me to never say that I know something that I do not.

I've just always known.....since I can remember...that there is something divine inside me
My truth
Before I was taught or told......or indoctrinated
My natural pure self felt something bigger
Can you KNOW something without seeing it?

Well, I'm pretty sure Antarctica exists, though I've never actually seen it.

*nods*

> Ponder this...If you are Atheistic then where do your ideas that eating
> meat is cruel come from?

I don't think eating meat is cruel. I think the way we BREED them for food is cruel. Big difference.

> Where do ideas of good and bad, cruel and
> not cruel come from if not the soul?

My ideas of good or bad come from common sense and instinct. Early humans figured out that it was not beneficial to steal or kill others in the long run, and that has been the basis of our morals today. Remember, life and morals came about way before religion did.

If science is the answer then
> you should have no hesitation eating meat as you were born to do(look
> at your teeth darling one) along with grains veggies...etc...

Actually, our bodies are not very well designed to eat meat. Carnivores such as lions and tigers only eat meat and hence have sharp front teeth. They also have intestinal tracts a quarter of the size of ours so that rapidly decaying meat can pass through quicker. We don't have any of these things.

> I'm not trying to challenge your beliefs..just trying to add to your
> life thoughts.

I know sexy

> *kiss*

Kiss back.

> Nature is cruel(survival of the fittest)

Absolutely. However, it's funny how we humans tamper with this as best we can. The fittest animals today are the ones we hunt, so we actually reversing this process.

> I believe it is our divinity that speaks to what seems wrong to us

Do people not do bad things ONLY because they are scared of God and only do good things to please him? This seems like sucking up to me!!

> addendum:
> Do not mistake my divinity for religious fervor or mental illness....I've
> just always felt something in me......bigger than me.....based in
> love(god).
>

Each to their own



I miss the times when we discussed things on here.

> I myself do not fully understand the argument based on human tooth
> structure.

Nor do I.

> I look at my own teeth and compare that structure with
> other carnivores. They are not the same. Supposedly our canine teeth
> are for tearing meat, but they do not seem ideally situated for that.
> Human teeth to me bear a marked resemblance to teeth designed for
> clipping off vegetable matter and thoroughly grinding that to a digestible
> consistency.

Look at my comment to Mandy.

> Understand though that I am not now a vegetarian (I
> have been in the fairly recent past and will be again sometime in
> the future).

When will that be?


> Nature seems cruel to human perception, but I do not believe nature
> is cruel.

Nature is tough, but the way humans unnaturally breed animals for food is 100% CRUEL.

Me too
wanna make out?

> |> Understand though that I am not now a vegetarian (I
> |> have been in the fairly recent past and will be again sometime
> in
> |> the future).
>
> When will that be?
>

Who knows? It comes and goes, and I doubt it will ever be permanent. As I said, I like meat.

>
> |> Nature seems cruel to human perception, but I do not believe
> nature
> |> is cruel.
>
> Nature is tough, but the way humans unnaturally breed animals for
> food is 100% CRUEL.

Well, I mentioned sometime before that I do not like the food factory setup that is generally employed.

> My ideas of good or bad come from common sense and instinct. Early
> humans figured out that it was not beneficial to steal or kill others
> in the long run, and that has been the basis of our morals today.
> Remember, life and morals came about way before religion did.
>


Well, I'll go along with the idea that life came along before religion did, but I'm not too sure about the morals issue. To begin with, I am not at sure when exactly religion came along at all. If I am remembering correctly, Neanderthals buried their dead, sometimes with artifacts. So it would seem religion in some form has been with humans for a very long time. Do you have any ideas about the "when" for religion? Terrence McKenna believed that humans began developing religion when they discovered psychedelic plants. This doesn't seem far-fetched to me at all.

> Who knows? It comes and goes, and I doubt it will ever be permanent.
> As I said, I like meat.

Well, so did I, but it got to a point where my respect of animals was too great for me to carry on with the cruel practices.

> Well, I mentioned sometime before that I do not like the food factory
> setup that is generally employed.

No time like the present!

> Do you have any ideas about the "when" for
> religion?

I should have said MODERN religions. Morals in human beings were way before all modern religions. However, early human beings resorted to different Gods to make sense of the planet and the way it worked. However, back then, there was no law so the only way they taught themselves morals were based on what was best for their specie.


> Terrence McKenna believed that humans began developing
> religion when they discovered psychedelic plants. This doesn't seem
> far-fetched to me at all.

Never heard of that before and it seems completely ludicrous. As mentioned above, humans have used religion all the time to explain the ways of the world. Modern religion, however, took a turn for the worst because they became human orientated rather than nature orientated. That's a huge reason why animals are treated so badly today.

> Never heard of that before and it seems completely ludicrous. As mentioned
> above, humans have used religion all the time to explain the ways
> of the world. Modern religion, however, took a turn for the worst
> because they became human orientated rather than nature orientated.
> That's a huge reason why animals are treated so badly today.

Hmm...why does it seem so ludicrous to you? Just asking, I'm curious. I don't if you have had any experience with psychedelics, but I can tell you firsthand they can induce a profound sense of "sacredness" in the human mind and a definite sense of a presence of divinity all around. One thought I had some years ago as I was researching the history of a psychedelic known as DMT, one of the active components in a shamanic brew from South America called ayahuasca, was that it seemed coincidental that according to Jewish oral tradition, the burning bush that caught the attention of Moses was an acacia. This struck me because the acacia family of plants is one of the species which contains significant amounts of DMT. One of the hallmarks of DMT is also auditory hallucinations, people have reported hearing bells, gongs drums, etc. So Moses comes across this burning bush, perhaps gets a lungful or two of DMT-rich smoke and hears the Voice of God...

Just idle speculation, sure, but the tradition of that bush being an acacia still gives me pause for thought.

> Just idle speculation, sure, but the tradition of that bush being
> an acacia still gives me pause for thought.

Actually, I take it back. It doesn't seem ludicrous now that you explain it.

Yes. Snakes eat mice. End of.
Don't like it? Don't get a snake.

:( Sad. No I would never do that I have had too many pet rats in my life - I think I would cry if I did.