Have you ever been vegetarian?

I have been a vegetarian for about 12 or 13 years. My objections to eating meat have become more rational over the years, but also less personal. As things stand now, I could imagine myself eating meat in the future if certain conditions were met, but I have no intention of starting to eat meat again otherwise.

I tried few times.

No, I didn't eat meat for a while, but I still ate fish. Now I eat everything.

(To the tune of Lady Madonna)

Linda McCartney
Chicken at your feet
Wondering how you're going to make soya meat.

Yes. Four months now. I'm just tucking into some soya burgers, actually.

I sometimes feel I should be a vegetarian, I would probably feel better about it within myself.. but then I think its too much of a change and I just like meat way too much to give it up. I have mixed views. I do agree with people who say we as humans were meant to eat meat.. but that doesnt nesessarily make it right? I could try really hard to give up steak, but it wouldn't last long. ( gotta go my pork chops are burning!)

Yes - I used to be. I was for about a year and a half, but then I had to go and stay at my then boyfriend's house for a few months and didn't want to be a pain with having seperate meals, so I started eating meat then and then didn't go back to being veggie again. I eat meat now maybe about 3 times per week and still eat a lot of vegetarian food. My dad, being a fisherman, didn't love me not eating fish since it was pretty much what I was brought up on, so he was happy that I could go round to his house for dinner again!

My issue was never with the concept of eating meat, but rather the way animals are kept and treated - so I try to buy meat products where I can see how they were sourced.

Yes

NO

I haven't of late, but since I've been ill, I feel better with fruits and vegetables. But, I must eat small amounts of meat because I'm a Type O

Vegetables are for rabbits.

No, I've never thought of myself as one and I have no real interest in that label. Although, I often eat meals that have no meat in them (or cheese even). Actually, I didn't eat any meat yesterday (though, I hadn't really planned to do that, it just happened). But, most days, I do have a little meat.

I like the taste of meat, but it tends to be associated with unhealthy thing (saturated fat). Also, it tends to be harder to prepare or to have fresh meat around the house because it goes bad fairly fast. Also, it tends to be relatively expensive.

But, I do put smaller portions of lean meat into most of the meals I make. I like vegetarian recipes because I'm often looking for ways to eat more vegetables. But, vegetarians seem to eat a lot of cheese and I think cheese is worse than meat, health-wise (tons of saturated fat).

The "political" aspects of being vegetarian I can partially buy into. I think the mistreatment of animals is a bad thing. But, I don't think that eating meat is wrong by itself. I think it's just part of our natural place in the food chain. My cats eat mice and birds. I don't really like it, but I don't hold it against them.

Nom nom nom
Non-chicken fillets.
I don't know why I'm always eating when I'm at this thread.

I'm not doing this for any ethical reasons. Just my lady and David are veggie so it makes shopping and cooking easier (in other words, I don't have to trek to buy meat all the time; what's the point when there's Quorn in the world?). Also, I get to live longer (hurrah!) and have better skin (hurrah!)

People say their hair gets worse but I've not noticed a difference.

I think vegetarians get served a lot of cheese, it's always the veggie option at restaurants or formal dinners - I've lost count of the number of goats cheese tarts I've had to eat over the years. However, I think most vegetarians are much more sparing when it comes to cheese in the food they prepare themselves, not least because not all cheese is vegetarian and even cheese made with non-animal rennet raises similar ethical problems to meat itself. When fuel costs aren't a concern (or hopefully when I get round to buying a slow cooker), I get most of my protein from pulses, otherwise I rely more on eggs. Cheese is a garnish, which is why I like to buy the strongest smelliest stuff I can get my hands on

When I was younger, I wanted to be a carnivore. Well, plus ice cream of course.

I have to check no because I eat fish once a month, a chicken pizza about monthly, and even red meat at Christmas with family.

Testing yes wabbit

I like to eat beans too. Egg yokes seem pretty fatty, but people tell me not to worry about it (they say an egg a day is OK). I've been making stuff with 2 egg whites (throwing away the yokes) instead of 1 egg and that seems to work out nicely.

I'm being rather fanatical about food these days. But, a lot of that has to do with years of me having bad habits. I'm overcompensating now. And, I still have some major issues controlling myself. Much of the success I've had has come from just avoiding whole classes of foods. So, a lot of what I'm saying is just what works for me and not something I'd recommend for other people.

I also have intestinal issues related to processing fat because of the bowel resection surgeries I've had (many years ago). Bile salts that breakdown fats in my gut fail to get fully reabsorbed, so they can end up in my colon and cause distress. I've found in the last year that eating low fat helps me reduce those problems. So, that has fueled my fanaticism. But, I do still eat some fats. And, I cheat sometimes too. I had a cheese pizza last week and it was wonderful. I did get a little sick later, but not too bad.

I eat a lot less cheese than I used to, but I can't say I miss stinky cheese...

Cucumber/watermelon like stuff sounds up your alley, meditteranean hummous stuff, cottage-cheese, non-dense stuff, sushi, paper-thin meats with minimal cooking. Baked burritos full of rice, carrots, garbonzos, and ricotta, topped in salsa. Salads and fruit salads scattered in seeds like pine-nuts and light dairy. Rice is the most digestable of all the carb grains and works nicely as cold or hot texure for a huge variety of things.

Snacking is a great heathy way to eat if the snacks are healthy to begin with.

Yup, all that sounds good and/or I already eat it. My wife can't eat gluten, so we make a lot of rice now. White rice is great when my stomach is upset too. I eat oatmeal every morning, alternating between old-fashion oats and steel cut. I still eat a fair amount of bread too.

I definitely agree about healthy snacking... big heavy meals are not good for me. I'm better off having light meals with light snack in between if I get hungry.

Goodness, no; vegetables are what my food eats.

Yes, I have been a vegetarian several times in the course of my life. I am not now though. I will probably go back to it on and off. Usually I go with the Hindu style vegetarianism, no meat, no eggs. Dairy is fine in terms of that lifestyle though. I will never be a strict vegan because there are no vegetable sources for vitamin B-12.

> I have been a vegetarian for about 12 or 13 years. My objections to
> eating meat have become more rational over the years, but also less
> personal. As things stand now, I could imagine myself eating meat
> in the future if certain conditions were met, but I have no intention
> of starting to eat meat again otherwise.

If you do, do it carefully. You don't want to go right from a long-term vegetarian diet to eating a big, greasy burger in one fell swoop, you'll make yourself sick. Start out with a little fish (grilled or broiled, not fried) and take it light.

I eat chicken or fish once a month, eggs weekly, and lots of dairy, no supplements, and had fine B-12 levels when tested.

> I eat chicken or fish once a month, eggs weekly, and lots of dairy,
> no supplements, and had fine B-12 levels when tested.

Well, as it turns out, you don't really need that much B-12 to begin with. FDA recommends 6 micrograms a day. That is not much at all, is more than is really needed anyway. Also, B-12 is one of the few B vitamins that your body can store. The liver can store as much as 20 milligrams. So even strict vegans can go a long time (up to 20 years) with no supplements of B-12 without showing any deficiency symptoms. Dietary sources for B-12 are meat, fish, eggs and dairy. There are some who claim that tempeh, a fermented soy product contain B-12. This is not true. Tempeh does contain B-12 %analogs%, but these do not react in the body as B-12 does. My personal objection to becoming a strict vegan rests on the fact since there are no purely vegetable sources for B-12, and your body does need B-12, strict veganism is not a natural choice.

Well if our liver only stores 20 mcg, it's apparently a rare commodity. I now have this vision of critters, through millenia of generations, passing on this limited supply of B-12 to each other, by hook or by crook.

That's not disimilar to my vision of the evolution of carnivores, the first critters to somewhat pass on generations of historical life force to each other rather than live fresh on the sunlight greens.

> Well if our liver only stores 20 mcg, it's apparently a rare commodity.
> I now have this vision of critters, through millenia of generations,
> passing on this limited supply of B-12 to each other, by hook or by
> crook.
>
No, no. Milligrams, not micrograms. We only need a few micrograms per day, but the liver stores as much as 20 milligrams (mg).

Ah that improves matters, but unless some creatures make it, we are still left in a game of musical chairs monopoly for who gets it as the population keeps growing over generations.

I'm guessing herbivore animals don't need it though, and may make it.

Will never stop eating meat, no way! Do you see my avatar???

Of the lethargic tiger rolling his eyes and thinking 'Not tofu again'?

Well, my "certain conditions" involve either a survival situation or lab-grown meat (no nervous system necessary) so I don't think it's anything I'll worry about too much right now

Been a vegetarian since Jan 19th 2009.

Two years before that, I ate only high welfare meat.

Before that, I was not educated in the abuse that goes on in the worldwide production of animals reared for meat.

I cannot advocate such cruel practises (and sorry, but even free range and organic is cruel), so I want no part in it.

> I sometimes feel I should be a vegetarian, I would probably feel better
> about it within myself.. but then I think its too much of a change
> and I just like meat way too much to give it up. I have mixed views.
> I do agree with people who say we as humans were meant to eat meat..
> but that doesnt nesessarily make it right? I could try really hard
> to give up steak, but it wouldn't last long. ( gotta go my pork chops
> are burning!)

I love meat, probably more than average. However, I am a vegetarian and I can honestly say I have not craved meat since.

As for humans meant to eat meat, I disagree. Look at tigers' teeth. They were designed to eat meat. Humans, on the other hand, are not wholly designed to eat meat in the true sense of the word (ie. chasing an animals and ripping the meat out with our teeth).

Yes, humans make okay carnivores, but we make even better herbivores!

> The "political" aspects of being vegetarian I can partially buy into.
> I think the mistreatment of animals is a bad thing.


So why be a part of it?


> But I don't think that eating meat is wrong by itself. I think it's just part
> of our natural place in the food chain.

I agree, it's just a shame that we cannot use our brains to organise a compassionate way of rearing animals.

I assume the problem is about costs and money is often tight, especially now.

I'm reminded of a Far Side comic depicting a boneless chicken ranch.

> I assume the problem is about costs and money is often tight, especially
> now.

What that the answer to the first or second questions of mine?

> I cannot advocate such cruel practises (and sorry, but even free range
> and organic is cruel), so I want no part in it.

What is cruel about free-range organic meat? I'm not sure I understand this. We used to have an organic kosher food store here in Portsmouth. They have since closed, not enough customers, I guess. Anyway, for kosher meat, there is a stringent protocol involved in ensuring the animal experiences no pain during the slaughtering. Is this any more or less cruel than being chased down by a tiger, strangled to death and then torn to shreds, in your opinion?

> |> I cannot advocate such cruel practises (and sorry, but even
> free range
> |> and organic is cruel), so I want no part in it.
>
> What is cruel about free-range organic meat? I'm not sure I understand
> this. We used to have an organic kosher food store here in Portsmouth.
> They have since closed, not enough customers, I guess. Anyway, for
> kosher meat, there is a stringent protocol involved in ensuring the
> animal experiences no pain during the slaughtering. Is this any more
> or less cruel than being chased down by a tiger, strangled to death
> and then torn to shreds, in your opinion?
>

Firstly, free range and organic are different types. Secondly, even though both are better than factory farming, the welfare is still way below what it should be.

For example, free range pigs can still be castrated without anthistetic. Is this acceptable?

I don't know enough about kosher foods (probably because of the religious associations) but even if the slaughter is pain free, what about the transport from farm to slaughter house. Some animals have to endure days or travel in confined spaces before being slaughtered. Not to mention the force feeding that takes place for most animals, and the fact that they are killed when they are only 30 weeks old (natural life expectancy 10 years).

As for the tiger comment, this is a natural act made by an animal in a natural environment, and hence cannot be compared to an unnatural environment that we rear livestock in.

> Firstly, free range and organic are different types.

Perhaps I am not understanding the distinction here. Are they necessarily different types? If the land on which the animals are grazing and feeding is certified for organic farming, wouldn't that be free range and organic? I do notice there are foods labeled natural that are not organic. I notice the price difference as well. I try to buy organic whenever I can, that is, when the price is not too exorbitant. That is getting easier as more and more farmers are going to the effort of switching to organic farming, bringing prices down. Organic meats are still out of my price range though. An organic turkey for Thanksgiving runs around 70 bucks, for example. But I do shop around for natural meats, raised without hormones and I like to try to buy beef that wasn't fed on ground up cows.

Secondly, even
> though both are better than factory farming, the welfare is still
> way below what it should be.
>
> For example, free range pigs can still be castrated without anthistetic.
> Is this acceptable?
>

Hmm...something to think about there. I actually wish they wouldn't castrate any of them.

> I don't know enough about kosher foods (probably because of the religious
> associations) but even if the slaughter is pain free, what about the
> transport from farm to slaughter house. Some animals have to endure
> days or travel in confined spaces before being slaughtered. Not to
> mention the force feeding that takes place for most animals, and the
> fact that they are killed when they are only 30 weeks old (natural
> life expectancy 10 years).

Kosher animals have to be raised humanely. Cruel treatment is not permitted. Neither is castration or force feeding. That is why you will never find a kosher capon or kosher pate de foie gras.

>
> As for the tiger comment, this is a natural act made by an animal
> in a natural environment, and hence cannot be compared to an unnatural
> environment that we rear livestock in.
>
>

What is natural for humans though? While I do think we should live closer to nature than we presently do, I am no Luddite,condemning technology indiscriminately. It is part of human nature to try to find new, more efficient ways of doing things. While I oppose the "food factory" setups we have for many of our food animals, I can't envision us going back to a hunter-gatherer society either.

And please don't take any of this wrong. I don't have anything against vegetarianism, I sometimes live as a vegetarian for varying lengths of time myself. Ultimately though, I find I like meat too much to stay away from it permanently.

> |> Firstly, free range and organic are different types.
>
> Are they necessarily different types? If the land on which the animals are grazing and
> feeding is certified for organic farming, wouldn't that be free range
> and organic?

There are differences but they are way too boring to explain Generally though, organic is better than free range because it has stricter guidelines in which to adhere to. Free range sometimes only means access to outdoors, which can create problems of pathogens, because they are of the same breed and type as their factory farming friends, use to an indoor life.

> I do notice there are foods labeled natural that
> are not organic.

You could say factory farming is natural, it is just a marketing ploy. Ignore NATURAL, unless it says free range or organic.

> Kosher animals have to be raised humanely. Cruel treatment is not
> permitted. Neither is castration or force feeding. That is why you
> will never find a kosher capon or kosher pate de foie gras.

I will look up more on kosher foods. Thanks for the info.


> It is part of human nature to try to find new, more efficient ways of doing things.


I agree, and there is nothing unnatural from a human's point of view of rearing animals this way. But do you think the animals think this is natural. You think their instincts tell them that they are meant to be brought up in a factory farm?

> And please don't take any of this wrong. I don't have anything against
> vegetarianism, I sometimes live as a vegetarian for varying lengths
> of time myself. Ultimately though, I find I like meat too much to
> stay away from it permanently.


No worries If ALL humans didn't eat meat once a week, it would go an awful long way towards helping the environment. The amount of greenhouse gases emitted from rearing animals for food is more than ALL transport put together!

For about four years; 1984-1987. It was kind of an experiment.

Nope, never tried. Never want to. I have a work canteen and they do one meat dish and one veggie. I can have either. But to stick to it would pain me.