What chance has the U.S. to survive, if we don't fix our money system and stop legal, and illegal immigration?

I think the U.S. has very little chance of surviving if it stops legal immigration.

The USA will go down in flames and drag us all into the grave yard and Barack Obama he knows it is life or death
for all Americans

Immigration is what made this country. Yes, the illegal crossing need to be, if not stopped at least minimized as much as humanly possible, but seriously, if we close off our borders, where are people escaping religious or ethnic persecution in their home going to go? England is too small, Canada too cold, and Japan has too many pantie vending machines.

Around 99.9999%

I really don't think survival is at jeopardy, just standard of living. Besides, if we don't fix the money system, it wouldn't be worth for the Mexicans to sneak across the border anyway, and many will leave anyway.

We need to stop legal and illegal immigration. Immigration gumballs - www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7WJeqxuOfQ

Can't be bothered to watch 42 minutes of video. I don't think immigration has that much to do with our current financial crisis.

thinly veiled racism is not a solution

with our low birth rate, legal immigration is essential for our country. Your time will be much better spent listening to an economist talk about the numbers, rather than a pundit who makes money by inflaming the public using cheap levers like racism and xenophobia.

You've got to be kidding. There's no way I'm wasting 42 minutes of my life on propaganda produced by the John Birch Society. We may need to rethink our financial system here in the US, but immigration is not and never has been a problem for this country. Immigration is what made this country. Whoever created this survey (and I have a pretty good idea who it is) should stop and think about where their forbears are from. I'm pretty sure they're not 100% Native American, which means that they benefited directly from US immigration policy at one time. Instead of railing against immigrants, upon whom this country depends for infusions of new ideas and new people willing to work hard, why don't you do something productive to actually help?

ditto!

?

> We need to stop legal and illegal immigration.
That sounds kinda selfish.

I haven't watched your links yet, but just off the top of my head I heard the other day in a seminar by Garth Turner (he used to be Canada's financial minister during Mulroney's term) that the States spends $1 billion a month towards the military (for the war on terrorism) while Canada spends that in a year.

You guys are ahead of Canada in the downturn by about two years - we're where you were two years ago so our housing investments are just becoming shaky. What we didn't do that postponed our crisis is not doing the subprime mortgages. Instead, we went for 40 year terms but higher rates and qualifiers so money is still coming in.

Oh, and I was only addressing the money part of the question. As for the immigration part, if there was no immigration you wouldn't be looking at a retirement of any kind. The States does not sustain itself in procreation alone. You need the added population to support the infrastructure. Always have, always will.

Does it count if I am the last one here? What if everyone else dies or moves to Australia or something? If only one person is left in the US, has it survived? I'd love to have the place to myself actually.

immigration = good
discrimination = bad

Should we also stop Europeans and Canadians from coming in?

> Should we also stop Europeans and Canadians from
> coming in?

Damn Canadians, infesting the US with their Canadian culture.

Yeah. Who the hell wants tea! Jim Carey go home!

Selfish? Why? We can't save the world. We can't bring in the world, without the U.S. dying from overpopulation.

At this point in time, I don't know. What we need to do is stop immigration from impoverished nations, third world countries, that are coming in here, bringing their huge families and then feeding on our system, without putting in a dime. I doubt European and Canadians will do that....at least from the Europeans I've known. We've become a welfare nation...which isn't healthy.

Let's say your house is full. Their are residents there that have been there since day 1. There are a few that added on some years later. Than you came in, with a few of your own. Add a few more years, a few more bodies. Your house is full. All of these bodies are eating all the food and using all the toilet paper. Including you. So do you think getting mad and locking the doors is going to solve the problems?
I'm thinking if the door was left unlocked, the new rule would be no coming in unless you have food or toilet paper.
I'm looking at it as selfish because if this country had done this...say...10 years ago, we would be much less richer in other ways. And my friend from Mexico would not be in my life and that thought makes me sad. Your rules and laws would take away my friend. That seems selfish on your part. My life would be less richer due to stale white bread making rules rather than wonderful spices, rich colors and beautiful stories from another part of the world because YOU locked them out seems selfish.

WHAT!?? They are coming here NOW!!?

Cloudhugger, your are talking with passion, I understand it....BUT, you have to also use your head, WE CAN'T TAKE IN THE WORLD, otherwise, we become a third world nation, simply put. Let's say you're in a lifeboat with your family, and there are many outside the boat crying to get in? What would you do? Allow your family to sink and drown by bringing them into your boat? This is the scenario in this country. We'll become, and they'll create the same country they came from, poverty stricken.

Curse socialist/communist Ted Kennedy for opening up the gates to impoverished third world peoples, destroying the fabric in this nation, the culture, the language. The best thing we could do would be to help them in their countries. But, I ask you what has happened to all the foreign aid the taxpayers have been doling out for years and years, I see no improvement. We need responsible people, giving to the right people in the countries, not the tyrants themselves.

In my Minutemen group, we have Whites, Mexicans, Blacks, Asians, they all recognize the country will be destroyed, literally if we continue to overflood with country with more immigration, legally or illegally, especially from impoverished nations. Throughout history, multiculturalism has never worked, suppose that is why the enemy within pushed for it?

Sure the rest of the world wants in this country, free handouts, they want to be taken care of...the enemy within our government, and Wall Street, and corporations want this country flooded with cheap labor....they want everyone to depend on a CENTRALIZED government, under tyrants....One world government under the U.N. ....deadly cocktail. While there may be some hard workers that want to come into this country, we still can't bring all them in....it's not fair to our future generations.

Propaganda? YOU have to be kidding. Folks we're on the way to a depression that will make the 1929 crash look like a cake walk.

What I, and other Americans are trying to do is make our government accountable to us, and not a foreign nation and elitists. The young have been indoctrinated, the highly educated have been indoctrinated.

> At this point in time, I don't know. What we
> need to do is stop immigration from impoverished
> nations, third world countries, that are coming
> in here, bringing their huge families and then
> feeding on our system, without putting in a dime.

Whn should we do, let them stay in their countries where they're starving or maybe even getting shot at?

And arguable, who's fault is it that they're living in such impoverished conditions? Well a good argument can be made that it's partially, if not fully our fault, we the Western world, who exploits the rest of the planet for our own purpose. Wouldn't you say that then it is our responsibility to right our wrongs?

I don't exploit other countries, do you? Perhaps, some of the enemies within our country do, but I don't. Perhaps, the people connected to the Federal Reserve does, perhaps some of the one worlders/corporations do, but I don't. Why should my way of life be destroyed by overpopulation?

I say what we can do is, allow countries to take care of themselves. How about the people of those countries, RISE UP, and take their country back to a better way of life... IF they ever did? How are we exploiting the other countries?

There seems to be no words I can use to express how selfish and wrong this seems. You live in a world of hate, anger and self righteousness. Do you make rules to justify how things should be, so you live in a world of comfort and safeness?

My world is in constant forms of self improvement, my focus is in how can I make things better for everyone for their best interest and I ask for help. I take care of myself first, which is very difficult, but I am always keen on the bigger picture.
>Let's say you're in a lifeboat with your family, and there are many outside the boat crying to get in? What would you do? Allow your family to sink and drown by bringing them into your boat?

This is not a black and white situation. In your case, let me guess, you would save your family and let the others drown. As an example of how my world is, I would do what I could to make those struggling less painful, less traumatic and less stressful. Maybe I cannot save anyone, but I will go to sleep at night knowing I did the best I could and human suffering dropped down one little notch. See how that makes the world a better place by setting an example to my family of love and giving? What does your family learn from your decision? MINE MINE MINE!!!?

On several things we agree, we both live to serve, but I cannot and willnot see your point because in my opinion it is pointless. It does nothing but serve your best interest.

Black men sell out black men, mexicans men sell out mexican men...I can go one. Women sell out women, and wall street will screw their own for a few thousand bucks. What's the common denomitaor here? Greed. You said it first, I'm saing it second.
The enemy is within, alright.

> Selfish? Why? We can't save the world. We can't bring in the world,
> without the U.S. dying from overpopulation.

There is talk about sending man to Mars someday ? then we humans could populate Mars

Who are we talking about? I am working to save my country, from the tyrannical one world government that is a danger to us. I am working for the sovereignty of this country. Yes, I am working for our future generations. BUT, people have to use COMMON SENSE. People need space, need harmony in their lives, not to be crushed by overpopulation. Our economy is bad now, why are they still allowing more people to come into this country. It could affect your job.

May I ask you, would you be willing to go in to another third world country, and help the people in their land? Teach them how to help themselves? Why our country? I'm a compassionate person, however, we have to use our mind, and not just our heart. The object for bringing all these people into our country is not to help them, as much as it is to hurt America, as we are the last bastion of freedom, and the enemy within wants to destroy us. But, I know the young have been dumbed down by our socialist schools, media, entertainment, they can't help themselves. Many grow up, come out of it like someone coming out of the fog and drugs.

I recently went to lunch with a few ladies in my group, plus a friend of one of the ladies. The woman has a Phd, which she laughingly said is nothing more than B.S. piled higher. She told us when she was in school she was indoctrinated by the leftists in school. She started thinking later, when out of school, "oh my God, I was indoctrinated". She shook her head, couldn't believe she could have been sucked in. She said she had to look and see the leftists for what they are, communists.

Sell out? Just because they want freedom, and they can see what overpopulation will do? It has nothing to do with greed, it has to do with not wanting to live on dirt floors, live in squalor. You call wanting to live a decent life, being greedy? I think not. I know a Chinese woman that lived on dirt floors until age 21, when we sold herself into marriage to an American. The American felt sorry for her, married her.

There is an enemy within... are within high places, and from dumbed down youth.

The moon is never going to happen, I think the space program is a farce, just a business, wasting tax payers money, when they could be putting that money to better use.

> The moon is never going to happen, I think the space program is a
> farce, just a business, wasting tax payers money, when they could
> be putting that money to better use.

And with our economy suffering and being in a recession we just cannot support the space program it is costly

The enemy within our government, and the money system, is destroying us, and hurting other countries.

> Let's say you're in a lifeboat with your family, and there are many outside the boat crying
> to get in? What would you do? Allow your family to sink and drown by bringing them into your boat?

That's not a great analogy for the situation. How about:

Let's say you're in a lifeboat with your family. It's a big lifeboat that can easily accomodate three or four more families, and there are many outside the boat crying to get in. What would you do? Let three or four more families get on board,or row away quickly, just in case letting anyone else on board rocks the boat and makes you seasick?

What if you are an accountant who has dedicated his life to ledgers and calculations and is not very physically fit. You are in a lifeboat with your family but it's a big boat and there's space for two more families, Amongst those crying to get in are two Olympic rowers and their families. What would you do? Let people with the skills you need get on board, or row away slowly going round and round in circles before being pulled down when the ship sinks because you can't get far enough away?

You can look at it from an ethical perspective, or a practical perspective, but either way, allowing at least some immigration makes sense.

My job is to help people who want to be better than who they are. I will never be out of work.
I am more willing to stay in this country and help the poor, the tired the weary.
When you use your mind %$%and your heart, your decisions are more clear, and more forgiving.

If we close the land, we will NO LONGER BE THE LAND OF THE FREE.

Dumbing down comes in many forms. Brainwashing comes in many forms. I understand your point about the dumbing down, the enemy, all those other catch phrases you fling out there. Yes, those are real threats but what makes the fearful things real is the energy that is put into them. I doubt you can see my point of view about sharing, love, gratitude and returning it a hundred fold because you are where you are at. I don't know what it is like, really, to live where you live, to see what you see and you obviously have no freaking idea where I'm coming from, but I will not sit by and pretend your fears are my reality. That would be you brainwashing me, dumbing me down. I couldn't even imagine sitting and having lunch with you.

You don't know everything, you cannot possible be right. You sound like a tyrant, you sound like the ones who are out to destroy you.
I want to live in a land free of tyrants, free of hate, free of bigotry and free of labels and name calling.

It's greed and selfishness. Pure and simple. My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, to thee I sing.
I sing to the country, not support tyrants like yuou.

OK, wht the heck...let's say I am in one of these situations you go on about, but the difference will be it is ME there, not you or someone you "care" about. If I have a dirt floor, it will be of my choice. If I live in a place where youth is dumbed down, it will be of my choice. Say I live in an area where immigrants are stepping all over you, it will be my choice. If there is a vote, I have a choice. If there were four familys that needed help and I could only help one, I have a choice who I can help alot, or I can choose to help each one a little.
I'm glad people like you live in a box, they are easier to control.

> The enemy within our government, and the money system, is destroying
> us, and hurting other countries.

The US keeps on spending money like a pork barrel and keeps on spending billions of our dollars

I see no problem with my analogy.

You let the camel put his nose in the tent, and before you know it, the whole body creeps in. You can't let the camel put his nose in the tent.

It depends on how big the lifeboat is...the U.S. is over populated. Before 1965, we were allowing only 100 to 200 thousand people in, now the enemy within wants millions of people in every year....deadly. These people from third world countries are here, on every benefit imaginable. Monentarily, they are draining us. No house can hold up under the weight.

Now we're talking family, not strangers. I say no H1 visas, nothing. We have Americans that can do the jobs, need them.

Did you know that Traitor Obama is now going to be letting into the U.S. 100's of thousands of Palestinians from terrorist territory? He is opening the gates as Traitor Kennedy did.

This is an email received by a fellow Patriot:

"Being recently identified as a Negasaurous Rex I am compelled to inform you there is more reality news at http://canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/8270

You won't like that either but don't go getting demoralized over it. We're still getting the first salvo's from the globalist's commie camp.

I remember Kruschev pounding his shoe and announcing we'll go down from within. I knew the bastid was telling US how it was. (I remember Kruschev saying, they can't win from the outside, but will destroy us from within)

Since then I've learned the internationalists always, always tell the world what they are going to do, what their next step will be. And then do it. Sometimes it takes them a few more attempts then they planned on but they are a persistent bunch those Luciferians."

WE NEED TO SHUT OUR DOORS, STOP IMMIGRATION....ARM OURSELVES...

Obamas stimilus plan will fail, there's no republicans supporting it yet in the senate and house of reps

Japan actually has those?

I believe in living in peace, in harmony.

May I ask you, have you ever been on drugs, or are you taking them now? I'm not saying this to be mean, I'm quite serious.
If you are, you're right I don't know where you're coming from...I've never taken illegal drugs, and use very limited prescribed drugs.

No one has ever been promised a silver spoon in their mouth. I feel no envy for those that have more than me, I do not invade their space, but there are those in this world, that think nothing of invading, and stealing from others. I'm not wealthy in dollars and cents, but have common sense to know, we can't take in the world.

Perhaps you should help true Americans before you try to help those around the world, we can only do so much. The Bible has said, there will always be the poor.

Liberalism is a mental disorder, as Savage says.

The true intent of the Constitution, our foundation has been distorted from the true intent....unless it's written down word for word of true intent, some socialist/communist and the likes of the ACLU, will twist, misinterpret.

You call me a tyrant, just because I want to be free from overpopulation, socialism/communism,.... then call me what you will.

Would you allow someone in who has job skills that the US population is short on? Or someone who is a specialist, best in his field, and we happen to have a community here who needs someone like him? Let's say there's a disease outbreak in a small town, and there's a doctor who knows all about it. He comes over here and begins treating patients. Makes loads of friends, meets a woman, falls in love and decides he wants to stay here. When his work with the disease clustered town is finished, you would send him home?

Define drugs for me please.

And I feel that everyone has some type of mental disorder. I'm not quite sure what yours is, but it involves being stuck in a box from the 1950's, a box from the 1970's and a box from the 1990's.

It's not the want or need to be free from those things, it's how you plan your wars.

I bleieve that people like you and people like me are a neccesary part of the balance of the planet. I would like to see your 'fear' and 'intolerance' not get too much power or we will all be screwed.

Do you believe in Jesus?

The socialist have control right now, have for a long time. Americans are beginning to arise...we'll win in the end.

Yes I would send him home. First of all we have plenty people to fill the jobs needed. It's a fallacy we don't have. And if this were the case, why haven't our government/socialist schools been teaching, educating the students in these fields?

People choose their occupations after school. Some fields are short handed because people are choosing not to go there. Some fields lack specialists. Why do you think some companies send for specific people from overseas to work on certain projects and tasks?

> The socialist have control right now, have for a long time. Americans
> are beginning to arise...we'll win in the end.

Yes Democrats such as myself and Republicans we all are in this together and they should start listening' to Barack
Obama he our President and there is a war between Democrats and Republicans in Washington

Barack Obama we elected him to be the President and some in Washington act like he is not our President
and they fued and exchange words and just fight it seems?

> People choose their occupations after school. Some fields are short
> handed because people are choosing not to go there. Some fields lack
> specialists. Why do you think some companies send for specific people
> from overseas to work on certain projects and tasks?

Yes we are real short on doctors and nurses just walk into any hospital for treatment and the staff is short handed
and probably same with Banks and grocery stores and you look at all the fields available out there?

Just most people they cannot afford to go to College or some Trade School they are not rich and wealthy
and Wal Mart seems to be good at hiring people

I don't know anything about drugs, except what I've heard of...marijuana, cocaine, heroin, crack, opium...I don't know. Then there are those legal drugs. I feel sad for the youth since 1950, drugs being pushed, their lives upside down.

Stuck in a box? I'm stuck in a more peaceful time, cleaner time. The enemy within has really hurt our youth, my heart breaks when I think about it.

There are absolutes in life....yes I have an intolerance to some things.

Yes

I would assume students during high school have an inkling of what field they're interested, or best suited. I don't approve of companies hiring from out of the U.S. There are capable people here. Companies could also train people. I think this is only another way to legally invade a country with visas. It seems kind of odd, other countries are training for jobs wanted by companies in this country. Why aren't our schools doing that to keep the jobs here? I smell big fat traitors in our government school system/companies.

The socialists/communists have infiltrated both parties. The democrat party...the liberals....the Republicans...the RINOS. I joined the Republican party, am on the County building committee....the platform....LESS GOVERNMENT, LESS TAXES, more individual responsibility. Both parties, as of now are socialist.

Population per kilometre squared

United Status - 31
United Kingdom - 246

So let's cut the overcrowding crap, shall we? The United Status is less crowded than Iraq.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

America is not a lifeboat that will sink if too many people climb on board.

I think the more likely question is whether or not we will continue to be the economic power we have been for the last 50 years? But survive? Of course.

I'm not watching those retarded isolationist videos, nor will I head to Montana to live in a survival cabin. Hmmm, I don't think I'm in the mood for Michael Moorer and his nonsense either...I know, I think I'm going to try and be a reasonable, thinking person.

We will survive just fine. Not tough to figure who wrote this one.

We'd actually fare better starting from scratch economically.

Immigration really just means how large the population is. Our system should work the same whether we have 200 or 200 billion people.

There aren't always capable people here, and sometimes people overseas get a better education in specific fields.

> I don't know anything about drugs, except what
> I've heard of...
Thank you for confirming my point I wanted to make. If you don't know about drugs then why would you ask me (and others) if we take/took them? What assumptions did you make? Were you assuming I took drugs to hopefully have a reason to feel sorry for me because I didn't agree with you? What was that?

> marijuana, cocaine, heroin, crack, opium...I don't know. Then there are those legal
> drugs. I feel sad for the youth since 1950, drugs
> being pushed, their lives upside down.
Drugs that have "ruined" (you say) youth have been around since there has been youth. The drugs (crack, meth, heroin) are worse, I agree, but it is ruining more than youth. 'Dumbing down' is more like contolling society, and our youth is our future. So I agree with you about that aspect, but tsk tsking youth for taking drugs is not solving problems. I know plenty of adults following into paths of giving up.
> Stuck in a box? I'm stuck in a more peaceful
> time, cleaner time. The enemy within has really
> hurt our youth, my heart breaks when I think about
> it.
Again, not helping. Your heart breaking is making you weaker, ergo another little piece of possible help in this world is rendered useless. Maybe the youth takes drugs so their little hearts aren't broken watching adults slip away into coma-like conditions of hand wringing and face wrinkling watching the personal loss of their own youth and hope.

You know he was a pacifist.

Exactly, why aren't our students being educated in specific fields? Why aren't the companies going overseas as other companies have? No they wanted to create multiculturalism. Why is it third world countries are being educated in these fields? Perhaps these fields have been created as a way Americans accept the people coming in on visas. Corporations and government go hand in hand.

I believe taking drugs clouds the mind, which makes it more easily indoctrinated, weakens the spirit. This I believe is one of the reasons, besides profit, it has been pushed in this country. This is but another way the enemy within has done to destroy our country. Indeed many adults do take drugs, stupidly.

It does break my heart when I see the youth, our future, destroying themselves by drugs, and having to endure the breakdown of the family. Call me weak, but I think it's such a waste of life.

I imagine there are several reasons the young do what they do.

Those schools were created by those countries. Americans had nothing to do with it.

What bothers me is that the reasons behind some people taking illegal drugs are not being addressed. Legitimate drugs that would solve some (not all) of these users problems are less accessible than the illegal drugs.

I've only read about half your posts in this thread, and am just sort of generically responding to all of them for now.

Here is an interesting page to check out Net migrants and Inflow by country: http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/countr...

..and a chart of a few countries over the years: http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/charts...

This chart is particularly interesting. It points out that the U.S. is comparatively immune to having a percentage of it's population foreign born: http://www.migrationinformation.org/datahub/charts...
Australia and Canada are where the foreigners move to.

This is even more interesting, the emigration. Americans like to be oblivious that people would like to leave here. Apparently though half as many leave as arrive, those leaving tending to be black or those with more money.
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation...
http://www.census.gov/population/www/documentation...

I think a few worldly liberal jet-setter types left the country in the Bush years, afraid that the US was becoming a police state. A lot of your rich republican types left for places like China because the opportunities for wealthy capitalists were getting better there than here.

Consider our "poor huddled masses" slogan. People have always come here from places like Ireland which weren't doing so well. The Irish of a century ago are no different than the Mexicans of today as far as ethics and economic impact goes. The United States has never been the sort of place a wealthy person of another nation would want to move to. The appeal of moving here has been that it's a gamble with a chance. Compared to other nations, one has greater chances of being upwardly or downwardly mobile, and not so locked into their position for life as they are elsewhere.

The picture you and your Birchers paint is that the US is the holy grail that all the destitute country inhabitants want to move to and leach off. The international data indicates a different story though, that all countries are growing and all of them have a huge influx of foreign culture.. but you think we should become isolationists and not participate in what all the rest of the world is doing.

You seem to think the US is the leading edge nation that everyone else wants to hang on the coat-tails of. That was true up till about 15 years ago. Do you watch any travel shows? The rest of the world is modernizing at a much faster rate than the US these days, modernizing including such things as dealing with issues of self-sustainable power, greater ease of living with lower operating costs, and such. The cost of us getting left behind from what other nations are advancing in is dying like a dinosaur.

I did some research a few years and came across a very sobering realization, most other countries don't want Americans, or at least not unless they have a recent masters degree, their own company they are bringing with them, or a million dollars to spare. You could move to Mexico, but not to New Zealand, Scandinavia, or a plush tropical island country.

Perhaps we are becoming a 3rd world nation, but it's not because of our immigration of the poor, it's because of our emigration of the industry entrepreneurs who would rather live in more forward or exploitable nations. The immigrants from Mexico would rather have moved to New Zealand or Switzerland too if they could have afforded to do so. Our standing on the planets immigration list is rather Motel 6. People emigrate to here because we are the most affordable option above the standards they are leaving.

Our annual immigration here is about one million people per year, 1/3 of 1% of our population, and I expect the majority of those who come here already have friends and family here. In the international scope of things, it's not nearly the ruination of our country you imagine it to be.

Check out this world population growth chart. Only Europe is behind us, where population numbers are actually declining: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_growth
..this in spite of the fact that we have one of the lowest population densities in habitable regions of the planet: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:World_popul...

One thing you probably won't like though which is a true clear trend is that as the decades roll by we are almost certain to become a predominantly Hispanic nation. It was fairly inevitable from the beginning. Spain had settlements throughout central and south America, as well as California, Texas, and Florida here, and let us not forget Spain sent Columbus here in the first place. In the larger scope of life on earth there was never reason to imagine that England, or central/mediterranean Europe would have the ultimate strong-hold here. In another century it's likely that the Asians will replace the Hispanics here. In three centuries the entire world will be predominantly Asian. Blacks, Muslims, and Europeans may be approaching a single race, Indians, Asians and Pacific Islanders a single race, and Hispanics, Caucasians,and Asians a third race. Basically EuroAfricEast, AisaOceania, and Latin Americas will be the worlds three cultures eventually. Religions won't change nearly as much in proportion, but will have much more distribution and not be nearly so geographical as they are now. Islam and Hindu will likely decrease, and Buddhism will increase. It's hard to say about Christian religions, but I suspect they will decline slightly in proportion.

There are too many unknowns to predict economics. It depends a lot on who So. America, Africa, and the Mid-East ally with.

One thing is sure though, Caucasians are a vanishing race.

I'm kind of curious as to which matters more to you, your race eventually dying out, or your religion eventually dying out. Would you rather a world with African/Asian/Hispanic Christian/Catholics (& mid-east muslims, somewhat similar), or one with Buddhist & Hindu Caucasians who otherwise maintain English language and the range of central European customs, traditions, diet, fashion, and such?

Really there are only two reasons to care, either for sake of the world, or for sake of your own extended identity. I suspect most everyone cares more for their extended identity, so the question thus becomes which do you identify with more, your race and customs, or your religious beliefs. I think I'll make a survey of this.

> The socialists/communists have infiltrated both parties. The democrat
> party...the liberals....the Republicans...the RINOS. I joined the
> Republican party, am on the County building committee....the platform....LESS
> GOVERNMENT, LESS TAXES, more individual responsibility. Both parties,
> as of now are socialist.

Just keeps on getting worse and worse all the time and it can go either way we look at it , plus whatever happens is
going to happen whether we want it or not

> We will survive just fine. Not tough to figure who wrote this one.
>
> We'd actually fare better starting from scratch economically.
>
> Immigration really just means how large the population is. Our system
> should work the same whether we have 200 or 200 billion people.

There is lots of space around here for growth and it just has not reached that far ? talking about 5,000 and more acres
of land for sale around here and gee like hundreds of homes for sale around Kremmling

"Exactly, why aren't our students being educated in specific fields? Why aren't the companies going overseas as other companies have? No they wanted to create multiculturalism. Why is it third world countries are being educated in these fields? Perhaps these fields have been created as a way Americans accept the people coming in on visas. Corporations and government go hand in hand."

It's not a plot of some sort. Americans have simply become lazy and lack belief in anything to invest in the future.
Quite frankly, all those other countries which are pulling ahead are doing so with something much more socialism than goes on here. Your return to pure republican values with fewer taxes is the very opposite of why these other countries are pulling ahead. Modern nations require everyone pulling together to create enormous national infrastructure changes and you want to put America back in the age of every man for himself. It was nationally sponsored things like public education, the railroads, the great white fleet, the panama canal, hydroelectric dams and rural electrification which once made America a world power. Today you have oil countries investing billions of dollars in pure solar metropolisis's to stand tall in the future, the very last sort of thing we could do on a Republican platform. Europe is building underwater tunnels to places like Morrocco and Turkey, and we don't even upgrade old bridges here. We preferred to not get our hands dirty and invest in stuff which didn't really exist instead of demanding that production, research, and investment in infrastructure remain here. We took capitalism to it's ultimate end, investing in earnings potential until the money represented nothing but money with nothing physical to back it anymore. It's sad, but funny. We got exactly what our cultural values deserved. We wanted money for nothing, and got nothing for money. No other country on the planet was nearly so stupid. That wasn't a plot, it's simply what everyone here from CEO to janitor or welfare recipient believed in. Well, possibly it was a plot. The CEOs should have been smart enough to realize that only the rich win in that game. If so, even that was stupidity, because greatest wealth means more when the economy is doing well enough for wealth to productively mean something to everyone.

Yeah, it's not like or Europe or Japan which have had to get really efficient about using space, or crowded places like Mumbai.

> Yeah, it's not like or Europe or Japan which have had to get really
> efficient about using space, or crowded places like Mumbai.

And i have heard that there are Islands for rent ? Yes your own Island for rent that sounds soo cool to have an island
all to yourself?

> "Exactly, why aren't our students being educated in specific fields?
> Why aren't the companies going overseas as other companies have? No
> they wanted to create multiculturalism. Why is it third world countries
> are being educated in these fields? Perhaps these fields have been
> created as a way Americans accept the people coming in on visas. Corporations
> and government go hand in hand."
>
> It's not a plot of some sort. Americans have simply become lazy and
> lack belief in anything to invest in the future.
> Quite frankly, all those other countries which are pulling ahead are
> doing so with something much more socialism than goes on here. Your
> return to pure republican values with fewer taxes is the very opposite
> of why these other countries are pulling ahead. Modern nations require
> everyone pulling together to create enormous national infrastructure
> changes and you want to put America back in the age of every man for
> himself. It was nationally sponsored things like public education,
> the railroads, the great white fleet, the panama canal, hydroelectric
> dams and rural electrification which once made America a world power.
> Today you have oil countries investing billions of dollars in pure
> solar metropolisis's to stand tall in the future, the very last sort
> of thing we could do on a Republican platform. Europe is building
> underwater tunnels to places like Morrocco and Turkey, and we don't
> even upgrade old bridges here. We preferred to not get our hands dirty
> and invest in stuff which didn't really exist instead of demanding
> that production, research, and investment in infrastructure remain
> here. We took capitalism to it's ultimate end, investing in earnings
> potential until the money represented nothing but money with nothing
> physical to back it anymore. It's sad, but funny. We got exactly what
> our cultural values deserved. We wanted money for nothing, and got
> nothing for money. No other country on the planet was nearly so stupid.
> That wasn't a plot, it's simply what everyone here from CEO to janitor
> or welfare recipient believed in. Well, possibly it was a plot. The
> CEOs should have been smart enough to realize that only the rich win
> in that game. If so, even that was stupidity, because greatest wealth
> means more when the economy is doing well enough for wealth to productively
> mean something to everyone.

These bridges here in the state of Colorado they are in serious need of repair like at once right away because when
you drive under these bridges along the interstate highway 70 you can see the rusty bars and falling concrete
it is a scary thing like that thing could collapse at any moment ?
Plus all these pot holes on the highway and roads you almost need a 4 wheel drive to navigate them because the
roads are so bad of condition a car will fall right through and it wrecks your car

Okay, were those countries creating jobs for what their students are learning? The government sets the curriculum for foreseeable jobs, don't they? The government is in bed with big corporations. Then ask yourself, what happened here? The students, or Americans were sabotaged. I say again, I smell a fat rat! For instance, is India, or China, or wherever, providing jobs for their people? If so, then why would they come to America?

I suspect the reason people drugs is peer pressure, lack of good nutrition, poor diet, lack of faith, stress.

I believe the U.S. is dying from the enemy within....but we will win in the end. God told us not to intermarry, but people do, which destroys an identity, a culture, a faith. I like things simple, but people going against the grain so to speak, opens up more problems, disharmony. I believe in simplicity, isolationism.

It's a war of the haves and the have nots. God blessed the Christian nations with the wealth through the birthright, those less fortunate countries are jealous, want to steal what we have. God warned us of this fact.

Yes, caucasians or the white race are less in numbers, because we were created later by God, through our lineage, will Jesus be born. Also, we usually exercise more discipline, responsibility in child bearing. Plus, ignorant of God's Word, do some of the white race intermarry. Personally, I feel when races intermarry, it takes away each identity.

There will be a famine of the Word in the end times. The one worlders, elitists, and have nots want to blend, mix. It's easier for them. Those have nots that have poor faith, no faith, philosophies, want to wipe out Christians.

I see no more than "confusion" taking place, of which Satan is master. What is happening today, is being orchestrated by the One Worlders, the elitists.

Sometimes it is peer pressure, sometimes boredom, looking for a thrill. If it's due to stress, the stress needs to be addressed. Most of the time, I think teens and/or their parents don't realize there is a treatable condition going on. Illegal drug use relieves symptoms of conditions that could have been treated in legal ways.

I've done that actually, picnicing and scuba diving on a small island in the Bahamas as a teen.

> I've done that actually, picnicing and scuba diving on a small island
> in the Bahamas as a teen.

Oh that would be so neat and fun to do Kristal and right now i am getting this work at home job lined up for myself
and to give me more things to do on my retirement plus being online all day long and doing stuff like paying bills
or checking on my Bank Account and blah blah and yes getting out of the house at times soon as my car is fixed
and running again gee i will be so glad

China is rebuilding on a major scale, and India too compared to us at least. Both of them are probably better off staying home. Ideolology and curiousity drive people to change countries as much as necessity.

The people I know who moved to the US moved here because the American way of thinking was an adventure.

In the mid 90's you had soviet computer programmers looking for work here. By the mid 00's you had US programmers looking for work in Australia. It's a bit like the gold rush of the 1850's and all the community support industries which accompanied it. Every new technology is a job frontier which spreads around the world. People don't have quite the attachment to home or nation they had when you were young.

I saw first hand though an example of government meddling in school curriculum. The military wanted a robotic drones industry. NASA invents the technology. NASA sponsored college programs in robotics.

Here's a scary thing though. More than 50% of the nations software is written for the defense industry, which is contracted to private corporations, which in turn outsource to foreign contractors. Public sector US computer programmers are looking for work in places like Australia while meanwhile, the majority of US programming demands are funded by taxpayers and fulfilled by Asians. ..yet another failure of American corporate capitalism.

We need to socialize American corporations, at least as far as regulating that they hire domestically.

Tiger Woods makes more money for appearing in Nike shoe commercials than all the Nike factory workers in Asia combined. If those shoes were made here they would cost $40 more per pair, but it's $40 which would stay circulating in the country instead of $2 per pair of shoes leaving the country. - Are people likely to pay $40 more for shoes? Not really. We have two options, stop paying CEOs and Tiger Woods so much, or pay American workers much less. If we don't do that though we just keep getting further in debt to other nations under the guise of getting our money for nothing.

Sounds like you are on the road to recovery from the Republican years. Fewer people in Colorado would be selling their homes if they were employed fixing bridges, and then they could pay for local flowers and house remodeling to pay their neighbors to pay their taxes to fix the bridges.

High taxes spent properly indicates everyone is making and spending more money. Taxes are higher in Europe and so is their standard of living.

> Sounds like you are on the road to recovery from the Republican years.
> Fewer people in Colorado would be selling their homes if they were
> employed fixing bridges, and then they could pay for local flowers
> and house remodeling to pay their neighbors to pay their taxes to
> fix the bridges.
>
> High taxes spent properly indicates everyone is making and spending
> more money. Taxes are higher in Europe and so is their standard of
> living.

Ever since i became a Democrat it has been recovery for me and no more Republican for me and all because of
the Bush legacy that was left behind and i felt Republicans they stink and they leave an odor
Yes send out the Democrats to fix our highway system and it will take many years for this to ever become reality
in Colorado or until a bridge falls down and kills some people then finger pointing time? oh they should have done
this, or they should have done that but i do believe the Democrats will achieve this some how and find the money
to get this much needed work done ASAP

The Colorado Department of Transportation CDOT they could get enough workers on our bridges to buy some of
these homes for sale around here and yes some of these roads are really not all that bad , plus these 50 year old
power poles they are being replaced with new power poles along our highway? you can drive along and watch them
working on the poles and all being done in deep snow that is pushed aside with heavy equipment

Plus the talk of widening interstate 70 that goes through our mountains up here from 2 lanes to 3 lanes? all because
of the ski traffic headed up here from Denver International Airport and this highway 70 becomes a parking lot
oh gee is it ever clogged with cars trucks and buses

It's a simple migration of numbers to nearby territories, and always has been. These Christian nations you speak of, or any nations for that matter, such as the muslim and hindu nations, are just brief snapshots of the migration of cultures.

There are probably even more people in those nations arguing that their birthright is being stolen during the more recent Asian expansion. The land mass of Australia does not belong to Aborigines, caucasian Christians, or muslim Asian islanders. It belongs to the ebb and flow of the cultural migration tides, as does the rest of the world. Why you think the world is supposed to abide by the 18th C. snapshot is beyond me. It's different than the 2000 BC snapshot, and will be different than the 4000 AD snapshot.

It's always been a war of the haves and have-nots, or often more like a war of the have-more-want-mores and the humble-haves (The Americas, Africa, Mid-East, Asia, Australia). For the last millenium western culture has been taking over every corner of the planet. In the last century most every corner has kicked us back out except in the Americas where our invasion was rather comprehensive. Even here though we aren't immune to the migration of the masses.

People have always intermarried. Jesus came from the most intermarried territory on the planet at the time.

The Asian expansion or Hispanic expansion has less to do with wanting other peoples stuff than the Western expansion did. It's simply a matter of relative populations needing to live somewhere.

Clearly you believe that Europeans had a right to take over the world, and no other race or culture on the planet does, not even the Catholic central/south Americans descendant from Spain. Not even your racist bible interpretations can justify that line of thinking, considering they are using the same bible to justify their position.

The world's people are like waves or clouds. There are a thousand types of clouds, but you want it all to be cumulus clouds because that is less confusing to you.

American culture Christians did not even exist 2000 years ago. Chinese Christians certainly did not. You are worried that identities will fade. Of course they will, and new ones will take their place. 2000 years ago there was no such thing as European identity. Greeks, Turks, Francks, Gauls, Celts, Norse were all worlds apart in race, religion, and culture. Polynesians, Eskimos, and South Americans were once Iraquis (Iroquois). In another couple of centuries we might have Muslim So. Americans or a Pacific Rim of Christian Asians. How is this any less confusing than there being Christian Americans today? We came into existence by change and migration, change and migration will continue after we are gone.

I really don't get how you are having difficulty picturing this. The world never had fixed identities. Every second the world shifts. A billion conversations or listening of radio/tv shows are occurring at this very second which has just shifted a billion identities towards one philosophy or another. Every friendship or marriage, even to next door neighbors, is shifting the worlds identities. There is no such thing as racial purity. Everyone on the planet is a mutt. There isn't one Christian religion but dozens of churches, and if you deeply interviewed every Christian you would find that each one has a unique perspective. A more accurate picture of the world is that there are 7 billion races and 7 billion different religions. The only truly common identity we can lay claim to is being human, and over the centuries even that distinction may disappear as some cultures take to integrating technology and others take to integrating animal genes. Corn did not even exist 20,000 years ago, it was hybridized and cultured into existence. People are no different.

God is the universal flow of nature. Tribal identity is a man-made fiction which scientific observation of nature does not support. It's a truly absurd thing to base one's religious beliefs on. Santa Claus has a more solid permanent foundation. Since Santa is not founded in nature, we can assign a permanent identity to him. This world has not a single physical permanent deeply comprehended fact man can cling to. If you are looking for spirituality in permanent physical facts, for instance tribal identity, you are looking in the wrong place.

Good for you.

Good to hear.

I wish it were trains they were building, but at least the labor helps the economy.

> Good for you.

And Kristal i thought that i had such a good "car" and now i learn on the internet that these flexible fuel hoses are no
longer made by Chevrolet and not kept in stock at any Auto Parts store and thinking gee i got screwed on this car ?

Plus my car had been recalled by Chevrolet because of the flexible fuel lines failing while your driving like mine did
and all my gas went out onto the road and left me stranded og
Yes cool what we can learn on the internet and lots to find out about something all the way to our home hot water
heaters?

Yea my car had a mechanical failure of those fuel lines they ruptured and i was able to find some more fuel lines right
on the internet and in Minnesota

> I wish it were trains they were building, but at least the labor helps
> the economy.

That is just it we have the trains that snake through these mountains on their way to California Amtrac Zepher ?
Colorado could aleviate some of this congestion on I 70 by using trains to get the skiiers and snowboarders up
here to ski yes by train and buses already come up here and drive by not far from here plus we have our own
Airport 2 Airports in this county alone and yes we have some pretty big jets that land and take off

> Good to hear.

It could turn out to be a better year for all of us just can feel it right now and i love Barack Obama

Better fuel lines, I hope. Metal braided perhaps. The angles and proximity to heat matter, otherwise you can get bubbles in the line.

> It's a simple migration of numbers to nearby territories, and always
> has been. These Christian nations you speak of, or any nations for
> that matter, such as the muslim and hindu nations, are just brief
> snapshots of the migration of cultures.
>
> There are probably even more people in those nations arguing that
> their birthright is being stolen during the more recent Asian expansion.
> The land mass of Australia does not belong to Aborigines, caucasian
> Christians, or muslim Asian islanders. It belongs to the ebb and flow
> of the cultural migration tides, as does the rest of the world. Why
> you think the world is supposed to abide by the 18th C. snapshot is
> beyond me. It's different than the 2000 BC snapshot, and will be different
> than the 4000 AD snapshot.
>
> It's always been a war of the haves and have-nots, or often more like
> a war of the have-more-want-mores and the humble-haves (The Americas,
> Africa, Mid-East, Asia, Australia). For the last millenium western
> culture has been taking over every corner of the planet. In the last
> century most every corner has kicked us back out except in the Americas
> where our invasion was rather comprehensive. Even here though we aren't
> immune to the migration of the masses.
>
> People have always intermarried. Jesus came from the most intermarried
> territory on the planet at the time.
>
> The Asian expansion or Hispanic expansion has less to do with wanting
> other peoples stuff than the Western expansion did. It's simply a
> matter of relative populations needing to live somewhere.
>
> Clearly you believe that Europeans had a right to take over the world,
> and no other race or culture on the planet does, not even the Catholic
> central/south Americans descendant from Spain. Not even your racist
> bible interpretations can justify that line of thinking, considering
> they are using the same bible to justify their position.
>
> The world's people are like waves or clouds. There are a thousand
> types of clouds, but you want it all to be cumulus clouds because
> that is less confusing to you.
>
> American culture Christians did not even exist 2000 years ago. Chinese
> Christians certainly did not. You are worried that identities will
> fade. Of course they will, and new ones will take their place. 2000
> years ago there was no such thing as European identity. Greeks, Turks,
> Francks, Gauls, Celts, Norse were all worlds apart in race, religion,
> and culture. Polynesians, Eskimos, and South Americans were once Iraquis
> (Iroquois). In another couple of centuries we might have Muslim So.
> Americans or a Pacific Rim of Christian Asians. How is this any less
> confusing than there being Christian Americans today? We came into
> existence by change and migration, change and migration will continue
> after we are gone.
>
> I really don't get how you are having difficulty picturing this. The
> world never had fixed identities. Every second the world shifts. A
> billion conversations or listening of radio/tv shows are occurring
> at this very second which has just shifted a billion identities towards
> one philosophy or another. Every friendship or marriage, even to next
> door neighbors, is shifting the worlds identities. There is no such
> thing as racial purity. Everyone on the planet is a mutt. There isn't
> one Christian religion but dozens of churches, and if you deeply interviewed
> every Christian you would find that each one has a unique perspective.
> A more accurate picture of the world is that there are 7 billion races
> and 7 billion different religions. The only truly common identity
> we can lay claim to is being human, and over the centuries even that
> distinction may disappear as some cultures take to integrating technology
> and others take to integrating animal genes. Corn did not even exist
> 20,000 years ago, it was hybridized and cultured into existence. People
> are no different.
>
> God is the universal flow of nature. Tribal identity is a man-made
> fiction which scientific observation of nature does not support. It's
> a truly absurd thing to base one's religious beliefs on. Santa Claus
> has a more solid permanent foundation. Since Santa is not founded
> in nature, we can assign a permanent identity to him. This world has
> not a single physical permanent deeply comprehended fact man can cling
> to. If you are looking for spirituality in permanent physical facts,
> for instance tribal identity, you are looking in the wrong place.

The Forests are rapibly disappearing in Colorado all because of this pine beatle epidemic? yes during the Summer
months you will really notice it when you come to visit Colorado these trees are all brown everywhere you go
and now they are making use of the dying trees and clearing the forest of dead trees , these logging trucks are
coming by one by one to this plant they just built in Kremmling? for wood pellet stoves and many other uses for
the dead trees

> Better fuel lines, I hope. Metal braided perhaps. The angles and proximity
> to heat matter, otherwise you can get bubbles in the line.

Just what i am hoping for some kind of flexible metal braided hose to fix this problem and because it is a good car

There might be less pollution if they fermented into ethanol as they are now doing with Los Angeles lawn clippings.

Just make sure it's not only the right size, but is fuel line, otherwise it will crack or turn into goo.

From an atomic viewpoint you could hardly be said to exist as any identifiable singular entity yourself, let alone any tribe. Some of your current electrons have orbits 20 miles in diameter. Many of your electrons, and some protons and neutrons were in India or Argentina last week. Only a handful were around when you were born, and even some of those may have spent decades in Fiji for a spell. You are a solid mass like the ocean is solid whales. Really, you are just a strong local tendency of habit for particles to form a cloud of person in your vicinity. There was roughly a you at the supermarket yesterday, but that space has since evolved to contain a migrating mass of air molecules. At the level of mingling protons, migrating peoples, or galaxies forming and dying, it's all just recombinant particle energy flux. In the scope of time there is not a fixed solid anything. A billion times within every split second, and infinite times between each of those, a new universe is born; A second ago no longer exists. We have no proof it ever did exist. It exists in your memory now within God, and nowhere else. God is creating infinite universes, past and future, this very microsecond before our eyes. You have galaxies surrounding your skies and galaxies in your eyelashes all dancing about with no fixed form, swimming about before your consciousness where logically nothing including even empty space (if one can begin to measure it, it is a thing) should exist at all. It seems unlikely that the intricate bodies of philsophical thought built up by human thought over millenia are any more significant than some fascintating kaleidoscopic eddys of giga-frequency magnetism occurring in some distant nebula. It is by virtue of abstract symbolic thought in our consciousness that humans even exist as independent substantive entities at all. We are collective tides of particle behaviors within an infinite ocean of particle space/time.

Seen from this perspective, a tribe or political nation is a huge abstraction of consciousnss, when our whole galaxay is just a fleeting blip on our dancing radar screen which will last infinitely times times longer than our whole galaxy.

I don't deny that spirituality exists, amongst the whole of the universe, in the context of our private lives and cultures, but I can't see that that's the ultimate spirituality either.