Have you ever had a reflexology treatment?

Yes I had a foot reflexology treatment many times, and I loved every bit of it. I love to have my feet being treated in a reflexology treatment, they are so relaxing. Once in a while I have a hand reflexology. I am male BTW. But I couild use a treatment now! LOL>

My impression is that this is a bunch of mystic bullcrap, and that you should only go for this in addition to conventional medical treatment.

No. I'm a guy.

No, because I am not retarded and won't waste my money something dumb like that. When I get sick, I usually just go to a real doctor (or not at all if I think it wil probabbly clear up (note: don't do this)).

A reflex is an involuntary and quick muscle reaction to a certain type of stimulation. There are instinctive, innate, inborn, psychological, and unconditioned reflexes. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that toxins are released from pressure points. To me, it's a pseudoscientific theory without medical evidence. Probably feels good, though.

Yes...excellent

For those disbelievers...reflexology, as I understand it, has to do with stimulating the meridian systems in the body. If you like a massage on your body, having a massage on the feet is excellent.

Reflexology rhymes with phrenology.

I disagree.

Here's to better your understanding:

>>>According to reflexologists, the body's vital energy, "qi", circulates through the body along specific interconnected channels called meridians. There is no physically verifiable anatomical or histological proof of the existence of meridians.

What Is Qi (Chi)?
Central to Taoist world-view and practice is qi (chi). Qi is life-force -- that which animates the forms of the world. It is the vibratory nature of phenomena -- the flow and tremoring that is happening continuously at molecular, atomic and sub-atomic levels. In Japan it is called “ki,” and in India, “prana” or “shakti.” The ancient Egyptians referred to it as “ka,” and the ancient Greeks as “pneuma.” For Native Americans it is the “Great Spirit” and for Christians, the “Holy Spirit.” In Africa it’s known as “ashe” and in Hawaii as “ha” or “mana.”<<<

I realize the body and the mind are totally interconnected, but I don't like the pseudoscientific practices that bring an element of spirituality to them. I mean, I could have a reflexologist massage my feet and enjoy that, but I wouldn't buy into the idea that he was healing a disease state in my body or acting as a prophylaxis by energizing my systems. That's me, though. I concede that maybe I wouldn't be getting the full benefits because I'm not "there" with the practice, but if I did get any benefits I'd just as easily dismiss them as placebo reactions. It's mind over matter for me, the conventional way.

metaphorically?

Maybe I just felt like disagreeing.

Right now I'm a girl that never got the fight she needed.

*slaps they*

You dog!

Yes foot, not sure whether it was refloxology or just a foot massage but it felt good

Thanks!!!!!

If only......... that would make things easier.

Thank you Joanne, for your post.

The mind/body/spirit cannot be separated. I studied the Chinese Five Element theory a little, very fascinating. I've had reflexolgoy, and loved it. May I recommend a good book for you to read, you may have a better understanding of reflexology, and meridians, it's name is "The Web that has no Weaver" by Ted Kaptchuk.

Yes I have.

*sigh* disbelievers of this are so ignorant of how your own body works. Why oh why wait until you have to be scraped off the pavement or until a test reveals bad news when a few simple preventative treatments will help the body do what it is supposed to do for a healthier and better quality of life.
this kind of ignorance is sad. Those who go straight to a doctor and do exactly what they say and take no responsibility for their own body need to be de-brainwashed. Getting toxins out of the body is an absolute necesity, and there are many different ways of doing that. Reflexology is ONE of many.
Some day, some day......rant over...

Can you offer me some proof (other than testimonials) that it 'works'? Any evidence? Do you believe in Qi?

There's a name I didn't expect to see here! I know Ted Kaptchuk by reputation as a researcher of the placebo effect in randomized clinical trials. I work in that field, actually. I've read some of his stuff, but not the book you mentioned. Dr. Kaptchuk believes strongly in "subject-expectancy effect", the idea that a patient will improve if the practitioner and the treatment are presented authoratively and the patient believes. I think that's the context in which he wrote his book.

"No weaver" means no creator. You've probably heard the saying: physical meridians are no more real than geographical meridians. Even Dr. Kaptchuk believes that qi is a philosophy and not evidence-based. His whole schtick is based on placebo : if you believe it, it will work.

I googled your book and found this:
"These ideas (sic. Chinese Traditional Medicine) are cultural and speculative constructs that provide orientation and direction for the practical patient situation. There are few secrets of Oriental wisdom buried here. When presented outside the context of Chinese civilization, or of practical diagnosis and therapeutics, these ideas are fragmented and without great significance. The "truth" of these ideas lies in the way the physician can use them to treat real people with real complaints." (1983, pp. 34-35)

Just saying, for me, CTM probably wouldn't work. I'm into evidence-based medicine; measurable placebo responses, germs, etc. Give me a pill, not a massage. And make sure that pill has something in it!

I am female and I've never actually had a treatment, though I did study it and we practiced on each other in massage school. I do have to say, the spots on my feet that were 'assigned' to parts of me that are injured/screwed up were sure sore! I nearly went through the ceiling when my classmate pushed on the spot for the upper digestive system, where I have a hiatal hernia.

yes, foot and it was fantastic

I have to agree with you, Cloudy. I am in no way opposed to Western medicine, but it's all about chemicals, and most won't believe what they can't grow in a petrie dish. I believe that all these forms of prevention and treatment have a place. A comparison that comes to mind is if someone says that exercise can't cure diabetes or high blood pressure, and you must have medication. The absoluteness of such a statement is close-minded at best. Exercise and diet changes can cure (for lack of a better word) diabetes and/or high blood pressure in most people. Eastern medicine that uses body work and herbal remedies has been around for centuries... if something doesn't work, eventually people figure it out and that method/item falls out of favor and is eventually ended.

The nerve pathways do not end at the brain or the spinal cord, those areas are intersections. People can manipulate specific areas of the feet, back, and hands to make someone nauseous, and also the opposite. I find it strange that most people completely discount any kind of body treatment medicine, but then they'll turn around and push and rub that 'magic spot' in the web of the thumb to help end their headache. I've heard it said that pain is a great equalizer. The body is interconnected, and when you stub your toe, your whole body is impacted, not just that digit. The brain is the least-understood organ of the body, and its potential is severely limited by so many narrow-minded medical fields. The best approach, IMHO, is to combine methods of treatment to help treat various symptoms and problems of medical, physical, spiritual, mental natures. I am very much a 'believe it to see it' kind of person, as many of you know... if I hadn't seen these methods work or at least help, I wouldn't believe in them either. Where I grew up, more and more physicians are beginning to see the benefits of using bodywork in conjunction with medication. My family doctor in the Tri-Cities is a D.O., not an M.D. If there was a D.O. in this wide-spot town, I'd go to see them. When I had my near-fatal car accident eight years ago, he first sent me to physical therapy, but that didn't help. So he told me that before he prescribed muscle relaxers, he wanted me to try massage therapy. Best thing a doctor ever did for me (except for helping deliver my daughter, of course).

When I was in massage school, we also covered some ground in essential oils. I know for a fact, first-hand, personally that lavender and sandalwood essential oils work much better at healing cuts than any medicated ointment, and lavender works fantastically on burns and headaches. So many people have bottles of aloe vera gel in their homes, but most don't stop to think that essentially that bottle is a representation of Eastern medicine. Ironic, isn't it, my irony-loving comrade?

Sorry, I shouldn't have written "give me a pill, not a massage". Massages are wonderful, for treatment of lots of stuff. I should have written a pill would work better for ME than a reflexology treatment. Treatment is patient-specific and I am a specific kind of patient that prefers fact-based, scientific methods than philosophically, religious methods like reflexology. I'd benefit from the massage part of the process, but not the qi philosophy that includes a belief in meridians. Same thing for me with yoga. I use it for physical and mental enhancement, not to connect with something on a spiritual plane.

Like you, I also believe that prevention and treatment takes all sorts of forms. Especially diet and exercise control for hypertension and diabetes. Control is the word you wanted instead of cure. If a patient believes that a squeeze of his earlobe cartilege will make his liver work better, then maybe that's what will happen. I've seen such things, too.

And when I say 'give me a pill", I don't mean medicine as in just chemical compounds. I include vitamins, minerals, supplements, herbs, all sorts of good things. To me, there's no functional difference between herbal remedies and chemicals. Functional, as in it does what it's supposed to do. Chemicals and herbs both treat, cure, and kill.

I think eastern and western medicine coexist nicely. What one can't do, the other maybe can. I think most people now accept that there's a smorgasbord of medical practices out there. I don't think it's ironic for western-medicine practicing people to have aloe vera in their house. It's as ironic as if I were not a hula dancer with a pineapple in my fridge.

We live in a big, big world with a lot of really interesting culture to share. But no, I've never had a reflexology treatment.

Regarding meridians and qi. When my mom had a stroke in 1995, I watched her dying, and during this process, I noticed a specific pattern on her body. The pattern went in a clockwise motion, ascending, and descending. What would you call that Joanne?

> A reflex is an involuntary and quick muscle reaction to a certain
> type of stimulation. There are instinctive, innate, inborn, psychological,
> and unconditioned reflexes. I just can't wrap my head around the
> idea that toxins are released from pressure points. To me, it's a
> pseudoscientific theory without medical evidence. Probably feels
> good, though.
>
>

It's like I've always said, getting laid is the best mystic cure for anything

Indeed. I can understand not understanding, and I can understanding trust in doctors, but I cannot understand is how people can say something is crap when you and I and many others see that these are very qualified health care options.

Argh. blush. laugh. sigh.

I'd need to know more, but my first thought is that you saw the cessation of blood flow. Qi is not a proven sutstance - it doesn't have color or any modality that you can see. It is a philosophy, a theory of energy. Maybe you saw something you needed to see to soothe yourself. But I sure wouldn't call it proof of the existince of physical conduits for Qi.

When my dad died (in March, 1995) in my mind's eye I saw a ship tethered to a dock and knew that my dad wasn't going to "sail" until he had "cargo" aboard. In a strange way I also understood that I could give him the cargo he needed by sharing some stuff with him. After I spoke to him, I saw again the ship sailing away toward the far horizon and knew my dad's death was imminent. And so it was. That picture prompted me to share what I might not have and it soothed me.

Qi and the theories behind reflexology fall into the New Age category. It embraces a philosophy at odds with Christianity so I'm quite surprised, having read your posts, that you're defensive about the practice. Ask your pastor about Qi.

What I saw with my mother wasn't my imagination...my brother saw it also. Our bodies are of energy. We were given 120 years. With the mind/body we expend some of the energy we were born with. God created our bodies beautifully. After studying the Chinese Five Element Theory, I realize just exactly how wonderful our bodies were designed.

Am I to assume you're a nurse?

Yup, misbehavin' is fun.

Not a nurse. Who, what, when, where, why and how were we given 120 years?

The Bible. I'll assume we were given a certain amount of time to fulfill what we needed to do on this earth.

My sister-in-law is presently dying of cancer of the liver, she has but a few days to a week. She told me a couple weeks ago, that it's too bad we don't appreciate our health until we lose it. She rarely ate fruits and vegetables. She always had the propensity to be angry, a bit of a chip on her shoulder. I believe she expended much of her energy by not eating correctly, and being angry with her life...chipping away at her internal energy. People are being systematically poisoned by the poor food, junk food we eat, taking drugs and not living right. My acupuncturist told me when we eat poor food, it takes away nutrients, and also, if we don't eat correctly, exercise, we're not taking in the nutrients to sustain ourselves, and have really good health.

We have to maintain what energy we have by nourishing, and cleansing our bodies.

No, although I would be open to trying it.

> I cannot understand is how people can say something is crap when you and I and
> many others see that these are very qualified health care options.

And that they discount it without trying it themselves or doing any research.

> I don't think it's ironic for western-medicine practicing people to have aloe vera in their house. It's as ironic
> as if I were not a hula dancer with a pineapple in my fridge.

I think you missed a bit of what I meant. What I mean is people who do not believe in something, yet they have that very item or a good representation of it in their home, and they use it in a manner that goes back to what they don't believe in.
I hope that made sense. The hula dancer analogy isn't quite on because you don't have a misbelief about them.
I would love to try yoga, simply for my body and a bit of time away from it all... I wouldn't be trying for some new spiritual plane either. That is not what my viewpoint is about. I am expressing my belief that herbal and bodywork remedies do work for people, and it's a shame that it's been labeled as 'mystic' or even 'witchcraft' or 'alternative' (read: weird) methods.

Ah, but hula dancing can be spiritual.

Here's from Wikipedia:
"Serious hula was considered a religious performance. As was true of ceremonies at the heiau, the platform temple, even a minor error was considered to invalidate the performance. It might even be a presage of bad luck or have dire consequences. Dancers who were learning to do such hula necessarily made many mistakes. Hence they were ritually secluded and put under the protection of the goddess Laka during the learning period. Ceremonies marked the successful learning of the hula and the emergence from seclusion."

According to the above, I do have a misbelief about hula dancers. I don't believe in the spiritual premise behind the hula dance. My hula analogy is ok then.

I agee that herbal and bodywork remedies work. I love that phrase "bodywork remedies". I'm just saying that they don't work for ME on a spiritual level because I don't believe in the premise behind them. Yoga and hula dancing too.

Allow me to jump into the fray for just a second.

There was always one thing that still puzzles me about Eastern medicine (I think I've argued this with KristalRose before). If "Eastern" medicine is so awesome, then ask yourself, how come so many doctors in the US are Asian? No, seriously. Think about it. With so many Asians coming to the US to start a new life, why are there so many of them studying Western medicine? I mean if Eastern medicine is all wonder and stuff. If you think about it, what demographic within the US pushes Eastern medicine? What demographic consumes it? It usually tends to be middle class, white, suburbanite middle aged women, mostly in the state of California (or sometimes Oregon or Washington). Allow a second for that to sink in. Yes yes yes, I know, sterotyping is bad, I know I know.

Ok, now who do you think is smarter, a white hippie who probabbly smoked a lot of pot throughout their lifetime. Or an Asian kid? Don't believe me? Next time, ask your "spiritual healer" what his or her high school GPA was. I bet you it wasn't anywhere near 4.0.

I think that about sums up the debate between Eastern and Western medicine.

> |> I cannot understand is how people can say something is crap
> when you and I and
> |> many others see that these are very qualified health care options.
>
> And that they discount it without trying it themselves or doing any
> research.
>

I think my well thought out (albeit racist) explanation above sums it up.

Trusting the "official opinion" of a ( ) qualified professional before trusting their own bodies and minds.




we could go on and on...

I don't think it sums anything up. No one really said that Eastern medicine is all that. They have good ideas that would have many practical and useful applications. Makes for more options rather than a doctor saying you will have to get things cut off and removed from the body, whereas Eastern medicine opens up so many more options. (which I know from experience) Western medicine is pretty darn good, it's the people's egos and crappy communication skills that kill people. Eastern medicine has it's major flaws also.
Why are there so many Asian doctors in the states? I don't know, I would ask them. maybe they don't get payed enough there. Think about this... most likely they can make a buttload more money here in the states than they could ever imagine at home, plus there is less people playing doctor here also as opposed to over there. maybe the insurance plan and kickbacks from pharm's let them laugh all the way to the bank.
A synthesis of Eastern and western medicine would be awesome.

And on... and on... and on... and on... andon andonandonandon........... YAAAHHHH!!!

No and although the massaging effect may be relaxing, most of the claims made by reflexologists (i.e. anything about toxins) is complete and utter nonsense.

I've been away from SC for quite a long time (since last summer, it would seem) so I missed your arrival here. I've been back for a few hours and I like you already! I'm EBM all the way.

Gosh, blush. I've seen a few of your posts and was glad to read 'em - had you figured for an exemplary character, full of wit and wisdom. And now, good taste too ! Welcome back.

Happy birthday