| User | Comment |
|---|
dab    | | posted 10-Jul-2008 7:23pm |
Some would. For some, the pay would have to be higher. Some wouldn't. |
Melf    | | posted 10-Jul-2008 7:27pm |
OTHER.
Reminds me of this.
I think people will do these jobs. I understand this is a pretty sweeping generalisation, but at the same time I don't think they will appreciate the work the way 'illegals' do.
I find it tiresome how people complain so much about illegal immigrants. Are you really feeling the effects or are you using them as scapegoats? It's not like you're competing against them for anything if we presume they will go for the jobs which perhaps aren't worth as much.
For fudge's sake, they're still people. |
| Galomorro | | posted 10-Jul-2008 7:29pm |
Yes they would. |
LindaH  | | posted 10-Jul-2008 7:41pm |
Of course. A person who needs to pay the rent and eat will take it if that's all they could get. |
cloudhugger  | | posted 10-Jul-2008 8:15pm |
Maybe. I have often asked this question, and the answer was always "no, they would not because it is minimum wage". I find it hard to believe that anyone would turn away a job just because it wasn't a high paying job. Almost everyone has to start somewhere, I know when I was starting out on the job trail, I was happy to find work. If I had to find work now, I couldn't make it on minimum wage even tho I don't make more than 12,000 a year, I'm not in the system. I pay taxes, but I don't get that paycheck from a boss. It's different since I can barter for trades, or recieve cash payments. If I absolutely had to, I would, but I have skills that would put me in a better position than a menial job. I did my time.
I really do find it hard to believe that high school kids wouldn't work. The past decade or so has spoiled these kids kinda rotten. I don't think it is because they are lazy, they haven't had to work probably ever in their little sheltered lives. Mom and dad or whoever has given them everything without much hesitation. |
| LindaH |
When you live in an area where it's hard to find work, you take minimum wage, because it beats being unemployed for the months it would take to find a better one. |
| cloudhugger | | (reply to LindaH) posted 10-Jul-2008 8:28pm |
I don't know about others, but it seems people here in Illinois sort of take the handouts first. It's easier. |
| Enheduanna | | posted 10-Jul-2008 8:35pm |
I don't think Americans are too lazy to do so; I think they're often too proud. Some of them would obviously end up doing it, since the jobs would be available. But a lot of the jobs would probably go unfilled. I think part of the point is that having illegal immigrants take these jobs means that there are better jobs for other people. There's also always going to be some unemployment, and the number of illegal aliens in the country really doesn't change that. It's not a one-to-one correlation where one more job for an illegal alien means one less job available to an American citizen. |
| southernyankee | | posted 10-Jul-2008 8:36pm |
Yes, just not for the same wages. |
| LindaH |
Take handouts when they have been offered a minimum wage job? I guess that isn't surprising. |
| romkey | | posted 10-Jul-2008 10:34pm |
Americans do work many menial jobs, just not all of them.
It's about the job market... menial jobs tend to pay very little... it's easier to find people who'll accept that level of pay when those people are illegal aliens. If there were no such people, I think that the pay level and the need for work would meet somewhere in the middle... and people would likely be surprised at many things they're used to, like cheap restaurants, costing more. |
| they | | posted 10-Jul-2008 11:07pm |
No. Americans are lazy.
I feel like I should add to this... after reading some other replies - so I'm editing.
If all of a sudden the illegals picked up and left, I don't think that Americans who were doing nothing or doing something less menial would step up/down and take over all those empty positions. Right now, anyone who wants to work CAN work. I don't buy into all that people can't find jobs crap. There are jobs. Maybe just not jobs people want to work. |
| kcthedog | | posted 10-Jul-2008 11:14pm |
Yes. Americans tend to be more particular about the jobs, but if there were no illegal immigrants the job market would shift and the menial jobs as you put it would pay better. |
| llamamama | | posted 10-Jul-2008 11:43pm |
We still have kids don't we? |
| Matty | | posted 11-Jul-2008 7:45am |
I agree with the explanation; it is insulting to assume Americans wouldn't take menial jobs. I know I've taken quite a few myself. The problem is that the question posed is never completed? Would Americans take menial jobs for slave wages? Supposedly, the days of allowing companies to exploit the American worker ended with the reforms brought about by unions and Federal employment law. The expression "honest day's work for an honest day's pay" was very often a union slogan used to unionize exploitive factories and the like. So much for that...
One of the problems associated with illegal immigration is that immigrants are so fearful of their status, yet so happy to share in the splendor of America, they'll take jobs that pay far less than what is fair (fair as established by the State Labor board who determines the going rate for jobs where you live). Here's a personal example: I sought out a bilingual babysitter for my daughter, and of course, my wife (being Colombian) has quite a network of Latina friends, so we found such a babysitter quickly. I pay our babysitter $8/hour, based on what I found out through the MD labor board. The first time I paid her; she was absolutely shocked. She told us that her mother made $3.25/hour because that's the minimum wage. I felt so bad for that girl and her family I can't even adequately explain it to you. But, no American would or should take a $3.25/hour job because it's exploitive.
Oh, BTW: the fudging owner of the cleaning company for which this woman works drives a Mercedes SUV to drop off the maids at the houses they do. |
| bill | | posted 11-Jul-2008 7:51am |
I don't feel like I understand this well enough to give a useful answer. Do any of us? When I hear the issue being talked about by politicians or in the news, it always seems like they're missing some aspect of it.
Generally, speaking we're talking about an economic situation. The companies employing these illegals must see some advantage in it. I assume this advantage is it costs them less than it would to hire US citizens. You could also relate this to them having a hard time finding people to fill the jobs. But, I would think that if they raised wages, they would be able to attract US citizens to work for them.
The trouble with this (from what I've heard) is that the cost of production then becomes too high and the company is then unable to compete in the marketplace because the cost of producing the goods is more than they can sell them for. I've specifically heard this argument coming from the meat packing industry. They routinely hire illegal immigrants (typically Mexican) to work in the meat processing/packing plants. There was even a case where a federal labor department raided them (in some Kansas town) and shut them down, sending the illegals home. The plants just stopped operating for a month or two. Eventually, they lobbied the government to back off and allow them to continue using illegals because if they didn't, they would be out of business. The government doesn't want to shutdown this Kansas town by forcing the plant to close. On a larger scale, if we block illegals from meat packing all across the US, it will essentially put the US out of the meat business because other countries are able to do it for less. If it costs US meat packers $5 to produce a pound of ground beef but other countries can produce a pound of ground beef for $3. They simply can't compete and will be forced to go out of business.
You might think we could put tariffs (taxes) on imported meat. But, tariffs often become trade wars. If we tax imports into the US, then the countries we are taxing will tax our imports into their country. It has happened many times in the past. Everyone tends to see this as a bad thing these days. We're trying to learn from past mistakes. So, we have things like NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) which prevents us from getting into these trade wars. Some people blame NAFTA for lost jobs, etc. There is some truth to that, but the alternative to NAFTA would likely be trade wars. In a trade war over meat, we'd see things like the price of a pound of beef going from $3 to $5. That would hit everyone's cost of living, especially poor people. And, we're not just talking about meat, but many other types of food (e.g. fruits and vegetables that use illegal migrant workers to do the picking). The cost of food in general would go up a lot if we blocked imports and illegals from working here.
It's a complicated situation. I think the people in charge feel it's best to drop most market manipulations and allow the economics to work out on their own. This seems for the best. It will means that consumers will tend to get the best possible price for goods. But, it could ultimately put many US businesses out of the market entirely. At least, for a while. Eventually, as the economies of the nations with trade agreements sync up with each other, we should get to a point where things are more equal and goods flow in both directions, roughly equally. It means the standard of living in these other countries (like Mexico) will rise. So, there's also an egalitarian "help your neighbor" (even world peace) aspect to the concept. Economic prosperity and equality leads to peace and justice.
I think the current illegal immigrant situation is more of a growing pain we're going through. In the short run, it seems all messed up. But, in the long run, as we transition to more equal economic balances with other countries, it will be good for everyone. |
| Cain | | posted 11-Jul-2008 9:11am |
Yes, of course. It is widely known and observed that illegal immigrants do someof the worst jobs out there, but I would imagine there are more legal citizens doing the jobs too - they just don't get the attention.
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| Cain | | (reply to LindaH) posted 11-Jul-2008 9:13am |
What is the minimum wage in the USA? Or does it vary state by state? |
| jettles | | posted 11-Jul-2008 9:16am |
some might, others no! |
| LindaH | | (reply to Cain) posted 11-Jul-2008 1:07pm |
It varies by state. |
| Iseult | | posted 11-Jul-2008 2:32pm |
Maybe. Are they necessary - can they be replaced by machines or not done at all? Could they outsource them? |
| Cain | | (reply to LindaH) posted 11-Jul-2008 5:15pm |
What is it in your state? |
| LindaH | | (reply to Cain) posted 11-Jul-2008 5:18pm |
$7.15/hour |
| Cain | | (reply to LindaH) posted 11-Jul-2008 5:24pm |
Gosh, that's quite low - less than I expected. |
| LJD | | posted 11-Jul-2008 7:16pm |
Yes, absolutely.
I have, and have no shame. I think if a job is legal, and moral, it is alright. |
| LindaH | | (reply to Cain) posted 11-Jul-2008 7:50pm |
It's high compared to most states. It's still low compared to housing here, though. You can't live alone on minimum wage, even in a small apartment. |
| Biggles | | posted 12-Jul-2008 10:44am |
I think possibly not - unless unemployed Americans with few qualifications are dramatically more motivated to get a job than unemployed Britons with few qualifications (speaking in broad strokes - I know there are plenty of unemployed Britons with poor qualifications who desperately want to work but struggle to actually get anything). There are plenty of employers here who are very glad of (legal) immigration from Eastern Europe so they can employ people for cleaning, factory etc. jobs at minimum wage (minimum wage here is fairly decent - I could easily live on it, but it would be difficult if you had dependents and only one wage coming in). I'm classing our legal immigrants alongside US illegal immigrants because it's a lot easier to legally come and work in the UK.
Though obviously that's very different to the fact that illegal immigrants (and possibly legal immigrants too) are going to be willing to work for less than minimum wage for unscrupulous employers - whereas hopefully legal citizens/subjects of that country are aware of their rights. |
| Cain | | (reply to LindaH) posted 12-Jul-2008 3:18pm |
I was thinking something similar recently - my daughter goes to nursery in the afternoons, but if she was in there full time and I was working full time on minimum wage, I wouldn't earn enough to pay for her, never mind every other bill! Luckily I'm not in that situation, but the minimum wage here doesn't reflect the cost of living at all. |
| LindaH | | posted 13-Jul-2008 12:40am |
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| Lahdee | | posted 13-Jul-2008 2:30pm |
I think the reason they dont take the job is because of the low wages, not because of being "lazy". |
| JessicaWoman99 | | posted 13-Jul-2008 5:46pm |
No I would not work these kinds of jobs |
| southernyankee | | (reply to Cain) posted 13-Jul-2008 9:28pm |
Both.
Theres a federal minimum, that I think is $6.50? But then each state has the option to have their own minimum wage, which would be greater than that. Even cities can have their own minimum wage on top of that, especially if their cost of living is too high. |
| cloudhugger | | (reply to LindaH) posted 14-Jul-2008 7:27am |
What about do you think, if we made the process of working immigrants to legal? Say they culd carry a card, make it green or something...oh wait, what happened to green cards? |
| LindaH |
I don't know. I think that sounds like a good idea. |
| docgbrown | | posted 25-Jul-2008 5:46am |
Yup |
| HMC35 | | posted 5-Sep-2008 10:05pm |
Hell yes they would. Not to go on the expected melodramatic rant, but I lived in poverty with my mom and brother when I was younger, and my mom would've taken any menial job she could. I know plenty of people who would take any job offered because they can't get one higher on the ranks for misc. reasons. |
| LJD | | posted 24-Oct-2008 2:47pm |
Americans are not lazy. I've done the so called "menial" jobs, and not ashamed. My children, during high school, did menial jobs. The leftists uses the phrase, Americans are lazy to lessen the crime they're committing. The illegals are breaking the law!
Illegals are a threat to our way of life. They bring in drugs, kill, maim. They are stealing our future generations future. More often not, they overbreed.
Americans are subsidizing illegals from around the world. It's costing us billions of dollars. I'm tired of it.
I do not want to live in a socialist/communist world. But, unfortunately, because of the dumbing down, drugging down by the establishment, it appears we're up against it. Increment, by increment, the evil ones are destroying the world. But, one day God, will take on those that are destroying the world....you can count on it. |
