| User | Comment |
|---|
Melf    |
It would be nice, wouldn't it? Still, it's not as though China was rosy and peachy and various other floral adjectives when they got elected to host the Olympics. |
bill   |
I'd prefer that politics were kept out of the Olympics.
The Olympics should be something we do that transcends any current political disagreement.
As much as possible, we shouldn't let the Olympics get leveraged by any group.
It should be about athletes and competition, as pure as we can make it, without discrimination or prejudice. |
jettles  |
i think the opening ceremonies should be boycotted at least and i guess i don't understand the "politics" of the olympics(i do know there isn't suppose to be any politics involved) but i don't understand what goes into the selection of the hosting country! |
| jettles | | (reply to bill) posted 1-Apr-2008 9:59am |
> I'd prefer that politics were kept out of the Olympics.
> The Olympics should be something we do that transcends any current
> political disagreement.
> It should be about athletes and competition, as pure as we can make
> it, without discrimination or prejudice.
but there are always politics involved in the games: from the judging, to the use of performance enhancing drugs, to the basic part of the games of giving away medals and the country count as to who has the most golds etc.......... we as americans have how many "professional" athletes in the games??? and prior to allowing professionals, neither our "amateurs" or any other country's were REAL amateurs(we financed them and they received pay for training, just as the soviets did).
so although we always talk a good game of no politics, the games are full of politics that are ignored at every level!
i guess my questions is at what point do we no longer ignore "the politics" because certainly at some point we are saying everything that is going on in china is ok.(and there is certainly alot going on there currently even beyond the Tibetan mess.......)
|
| bill | | (reply to jettles) posted 1-Apr-2008 10:38am |
I think the first part of what you said (drugs, pro/amateur issues) is reasonable for the Olympics to deal with. Those are their own issues. If it's about Olympic athletes, then it makes sense for the Olympics to address the problem.
But, China's behavior in Tibet or over general human rights issues, should be off-limits to the Olympics. It's just not the right venue to discuss or try to deal with those issues, in my opinion. The Olympics have nothing to do with that and are not well suited to address stuff like that. Trying to leverage a country via the Olympics seems like exploiting the Olympics to me. It seems unfair and it screws things up for the athletes who train and compete.
This is just my opinion and I'm sure external politics will never stop interfering with the Olympics, but I think it's unfortunate and wrong-minded. As I said, I'd prefer to see transcendence and a putting aside of unrelated differences. I don't like Olympic boycotts. I don't think current political beliefs should be seen as more important than the spirit of the Olympics, athletic competition. I think dropping our politics for this event may well be beneficial in many respects.
People have been unhappy with China for decades. Embarrassing them and accusing them isn't likely to change them. But, open cultural exchange just might, in time. Boycotting and protesting might actually be the worst thing we can do because it would only fuel China's isolation. |
| Zang | | posted 1-Apr-2008 11:41am |
No. It would make more sense to boycott Chinese imports, if you really want to make a stand.
Like anyone is going to do that...  |
| jettles | | (reply to bill) posted 1-Apr-2008 12:05pm |
i can see both sides of it. i don't necessarily think that a boycott is the answer to anything but i think we also think of the olympics in a pure sense, which they definitely are not! just wondering what other people think. it is way too involved to be answered simply!! |
| jettles | | (reply to Zang) posted 1-Apr-2008 12:07pm |
really!! i think the US would start thinking about it with the lead in toys and the pharmaceutical mess we are in right now!! and the pet food additives etc.......... ugh!! |
| bill | | (reply to jettles) posted 1-Apr-2008 12:26pm |
I don't mean to belabor my point, but another aspect of this came to mind after I last posted. If the Olympics were held in the USA or UK, China or any other country might choose to boycott them because of the invasion and continued occupation of Iraq. Or for racism, homelessness, capital punishment, legalized abortion or or other unresolved social problems we might have. Part of how I feel is that we all live in glass houses, we're all a mix of good and bad.
The 1936 Olympics were held in Nazi Germany... that turned out to be fairly interesting when Jesse Owens won 4 gold medals. But, also that he may have been treated better in Germany than he was in the US. |
| jettles | | (reply to bill) posted 1-Apr-2008 1:37pm |
i agree completely, i was thinking of that myself, about olympics being held here in the US and i also did give some thought to the 1936 games and jesse owens. thanks bill! |
| Frostbrand |
No. Rather, it should be used as a platform, as as happened in the past. Our NBA stars who'll be on the U.S. Olympic basketball team have the best opportunity to do so, because they won't have to worry about paying a severe financial price when they return home. Just ask Kareem Abdul Jabar. He did it once, and he's not hurting. |
| RGirl |
Each athlete should decide for themselves and if they are on a team then the athlete that was next up should make the same decision for themselves. These athletes have worked long and hard for this, often times their entire life has been geared to this moment, this one goal. Each step they have taken in their sport was a step closer to the Olympics. What pride to actually make it! Then the government says 'No you can't go, can't participate because we have decided to boycott.' That is pretty mean, don't you think? Did the athletes decide where the Olympics would be held? No. So they shouldn't be penalized for it. |
| Iseult |
No. |
| Biggles |
Probably not. I'm not sure that a boycott would accomplish much, and it would be the people who would suffer (from the economic ramifications) rather than the leaders. It's a good opportunity to discuss human rights violations though. |
| Crayons |
I'm trying to figure out exactly what's going on there. So I really don't have a worthy opinion here. |
| Enigma |
Sure because we're all hypocrites right? |
| JessicaWoman99 | | posted 11-Apr-2008 11:55pm |
Boycott the whole thing and President Bush he should boycott China |
| cloudhugger | | posted 15-Apr-2008 7:54pm |
Sorry, I'm not reading the links. I don't believe that boycotts have any place at the olympics. I agree with what they are boycotting for, but I don't agree with using the games as an opening act. I recieved in the mail a pledge card, some athelete asking for money, and in return I would et a lovely fleece jacket with the Olympic Signia China 2008 sewn on the top. I wouldn't wear it, just because.
I honestly don't think it is the right time or place. The Olympics are about everyone getting along and competing, not being almost forced to make political judgements and decisions. Before the Olympics sure...but not during it, the window was lost for that. |
| Enheduanna | | posted 20-Apr-2008 1:34pm |
I think we should boycott so that our athletes can continue breathing normally. |
| Enheduanna |
What about the fact that hosting the Olympics is a big profit-making opportunity? A lot of money is going to pour into China, which to me is kind of like paying China for being China--it's implicitly condoning the way they run their country. The government also destroyed a lot of people's homes to build facilities for the Olympics. I have no problem with anyone participating in the Olympics, and I definitely think politics should be kept out of that aspect. But in terms of who is hosting it, I think there should be higher standards. You shouldn't get the positive PR and money if you don't maintain at least a minimum standard of, say, not rolling over people with tanks. |
| jettles |
Yep, i agree completely. and i think people like to think of the olympics as this "ultimate" in that there are no politics involved but in actuality politics are involved at every level and we like to think pure thoughts about the games but we err in our thoughts. and i do think we are going to pat them on the back, pour money in that will not go to the benefit of the people, the will appear to the world through this glimpse not as they really are. meanwhile, people are dying here from contaminated heparin, animals from contaminated pet food, children from lead in toy paint, they are killing their own people and the people of tibet. i have to say how proud i was of the protesters in san francisco!!! it made me happy! i don't think we should just glaze over and forget china's history while these games are going on! |
| Enheduanna | | (reply to jettles) posted 20-Apr-2008 3:37pm |
I'm glad some countries are boycotting the opening ceremonies, but I wish they (and we) were doing more. My SO suggested that we boycott watching the games and I think that's a good idea. I'll be sad not to see some of the events, but I think it's a good way to protest. I try not to buy things made in China if I can, but as Zang pointed out, that's nearly impossible. |
| jettles |
yep, it is nearly impossible. and it is crazy that even if we don't watch and even contacting the advertisers is an after the fact kind of thing. china will have already gotten the money for the advertising either way. |
| bill |
The US might fail that test as would some other countries (UK maybe even France), depending on how the "rolling over people with tanks" rule was worded. Certainly our troops (and other government groups) have done some pretty awful things in Iraq and elsewhere. It is perhaps arguable as to whether it was government policy, but even that seems pretty thin (I'd say the Bush administration has been clearly saying they are in favor of torture, for example).
I don't mean to defend China's bad behavior, but I know that from China's point of view, they don't think we have much right to criticize. And, I think they have a point. Every country has dirt under their fingernails. Well, maybe some countries have very little, but the US is not one of them. And the ones that have a clean record probably don't have the money to host.
I'm not actually sure there is profit in running the Olympics either. It costs a lot to build the facilities and they tend to only have limited usefulness afterward. As you've indicated, they had to destroy stuff to make room for it. My impression is that it's more of show-off sort of thing. It's about pride. "Look we can afford to host the Olympics, we're successful!" I know that China takes the Olympics very seriously and they have a lot of national pride wrapped up in it too.
I think the strongest point, though, is that if you look at how China tends to respond to this sort of protesting and boycotting, there's a good amount of evidence that shows they don't respond well to it. Often, it has just made things worse. |
| Enheduanna | | (reply to jettles) posted 20-Apr-2008 10:30pm |
True. |
| Enheduanna | | (reply to bill) posted 20-Apr-2008 10:34pm |
It is certainly no part of my argument that the US or any other country is innocent on the human rights front.
China may not respond well to their own people protesting, but how well would they respond to an international boycott? There certainly isn't going to be a big one any time soon, since too much of the US economy is tied up in China. But given that they are really moving towards a more western economic model, it might have some impact. |
| bill |
So, if the Olympics were held in the US, it would be appropriate for China and the rest of the world to boycott us. I just don't see it getting us anywhere. We wouldn't change our policy because of a boycott, neither will China.
The impact may be that it causes China to move backward, away from a western economic model, which would be bad for everyone.
I don't think we have the right to throw stones, living in this big glass house of ours. If China criticized us, it would be offensive. Yet, we don't hesitate to pick on them. |
| Enheduanna | | (reply to bill) posted 21-Apr-2008 10:50am |
I guess I don't think it's offensive when another country points out our problems. On the other hand, I do also think China has more, and worse, problems than we do. It's not really that I think everyone should go around boycotting the Olympics; I think the Olympics Committee should have certain standards for who is allowed to host the Olympics in the first place. If that meant that the US couldn't host, then so be it. Maybe it would get us to get our acts together--maybe more than a boycott would. I think China shouldn't have been allowed to host the Olympics primarily because of their environmental problems. They shouldn't have been able to promise that they would clean things up; they should have actually had to clean them up, and especially get the air pollution under control, before anyone even looked at their proposal. |
| bill |
Doesn't the US generate more pollution than the rest of the world combined (or some absurd figure like that). It seems like we should protest our own government first, before we protest China ... I know, I'm beating a dead horse.
The air pollution thing I can accept because it has a direct effect on athletes. But, for political stuff like Tibet and various other human rights violations, I think the Olympics shouldn't be leveraged as some sort of political tool. It's just the wrong tool for the job. Can't the Olympics be an institution that transcends politics du jour?
The way to get China to change is to open their culture to the rest of the world. Economically this is happening and I think social change will soon follow. Lets give the Chinese people a chance to address their own problems. Sure, they will make some mistakes and fail at times, just like we do. But, it's their country and I know the Chinese people are not so different from us, with very similar concerns (human afterall). I've seen some indications that they are working on "green" issues. They may even be taking the lead on some of them. If they do it on their own, they will own it. If they change because we scolded them and put pressure on them, it will either backfire, they will resent us, or something worse will happen. |
| Enheduanna | | (reply to bill) posted 21-Apr-2008 10:03pm |
I think China is the biggest carbon emitter, although they may only recently have achieved that dubious distinction.
You make good points--and we should certainly clean up our own house first. Perhaps hosting the Olympics is a step in the right direction for encouraging change in China. I'm glad that some people are taking the opportunity to criticize China, though--since China's in the limelight, it will at least make people more aware of such global concerns.I would be sad if people silences their consciences on things that troubled them. |
| aquawolfy | | posted 21-May-2008 4:53pm |
Boycott!!! |
