| User | Comment |
|---|
they    | | posted 19-Feb-2007 8:35am |
Right now, they hurt poor people.
Minimum wage is far too low. I don't know how anyone could survive on minimum wage. I live pretty frugally, and make more than twice minimum.
The government is helping out corporations by allowing them to pay low rates, and those people that get the low pay use government agencies for assistance with checks, medical, and food costs. |
jettles  | | posted 19-Feb-2007 9:26am |
i don't think it is enough |
| blondie20 | | posted 19-Feb-2007 9:58am |
Minimum wage needs to be raised more often. |
bill  | | posted 19-Feb-2007 10:45am |
hm... I suspect I may not have worded this in such a way that it's clear what the answers mean. I could see some of them being taken different ways now... oh well. |
| bill | | posted 19-Feb-2007 11:17am |
I recently read a good essay about how minimum wage laws are a flawed idea. They are a form of price fixing (literally setting the price of an economic resource, in this case worker wages). It's basic economics that price fixing leads to less demand for that resource and thus the result is less jobs or higher unemployment for poor people. For example, a local pizza shop that used to employ 7 people for $5/hour can now only employ 5 people at $7/hour, so employees are fired or everyone is given less hours. Alternately, the shop might choose to raise the price of their pizza, but competition is tight. If they raise prices too much, they'll lose their customers and may end up out of business (more unemployment).
This brings us to another problem with minimum wage laws, they put burden on small businesses which are often already struggling to survive. While, larger, wealthier businesses (who generally pay their more-educated employees several times more than minimum wage) are unaffected. Thus, minimum wage laws are unfair. Additionally, 85% of the people who are working for minimum wage are teenagers living with working parents, adults living alone, or second earners. 15% of people who earn minimum wage are sole earners in households with children. If we care about working poor, there are better ways to redistribute wealth that minimum wage. For example the EITC.
Minimum wage laws don't work and yet they are often touted by politicians (who should know better) as a necessity or a solution to poverty. Economists know better. When we tinker with the economy, it reacts in ways most people might not expect. Economies are dynamic systems that will self-regulate, if we let them. Instead, we tinker with them and wonder why we have so many problems. |
| southernyankee | | posted 19-Feb-2007 12:34pm |
-- There are MUCH better ways for us to redistribute wealth
-- They are a form of price-fixing
-- They are bad for the economy (although not AS bad as some republicans make it out to be)
-- They cause inflation, DUH!
-- They cause businesses to employ illegal immigrant workers (as well as some legal workers who are willing to accept cash)
-- They help the (very) poor-- aka the minimum wage workers
-- Other: they hurt the semi-poor (people making between 5.15 to 10.00 an hour)
-- They reduce the number of jobs (although not as badly as some people make it out to be)
-- They put unfair burden on small businesses
-- Other: they discourage saving
-- Other: they only temporarily help redistribute wealth back to the poor in the short run
-- Other: the people behind the MW increases generally have good intentions, they just don't know what they're talking about
other- a bunch of other stuff I can't think of right now |
LindaH  | | (reply to bill) posted 19-Feb-2007 2:19pm |
"If we care about working poor, there are better ways to redistribute wealth that minimum wage. For example the EITC."
Would that really help a minimum wage earner pay the rent? Housing costs in some places are way more than a minimum wage earner can afford. Maybe housing and rental assistance would take care of that. |
| bill | | (reply to LindaH) posted 19-Feb-2007 2:43pm |
Yeah, if rent is the problem, solving it directly with a rent assistance program seems like a better approach. Though, I'm sure that program could be abused too by people who cheat it... I really don't know what the best solution is for helping poor people. |
| LindaH | | (reply to bill) posted 19-Feb-2007 3:03pm |
I agree. I don't think we would need minimum wage laws if rent wasn't so high. I've got this thing about calculating minimum wage, subtracting for tax withheld and comparing it to the cost of rent. It's one of those weird interests of mine. Most of the time, it's near impossible to live on minimum wage, and pay for your own rent and food. |
| bill | | (reply to LindaH) posted 19-Feb-2007 3:26pm |
Well, I think with EITC, they get the tax back. I think they can even get more back than they put in. So, that's something. But, it's still possible for rent to be higher than they can make. Cheap housing is problematic too. It often isn't kept in good condition, so it becomes a ghetto, breeds crime, etc. Then, people want to redevelop it to improve it...
It's a complicated issue. Min-wage workers are generally "unskilled". Why is that? lack of education? why, did they drop out? some disability? personality problem? substance abuse? bad luck? the conditions they were raised under? ... maybe that's all not worth getting into. Maybe, we're just talking about charity for poor people and the "why" of how they got to be poor doesn't matter. But, then, if we give charity to them, there's a tendency for that source of money/resources to become a dependency and for more people to become dependent on it.
It's like anything. If I put a lot of (free) bird seed out, I attract all kinds of animals, not just the cute little birds I want to help. In summer, bird seen attracts bears which can do serious damage. Then, there's the bully Blue-jays that can gobble down all the seed in less than a day, they come in packs. Plus the squirrels, so I have a baffle on the pole that blocks them mostly. Then, the bird population grows because I'm feeding them and I become responsible. So, I have to keep putting the seed out, everyday, or they will starve. I start to wonder how I got into this. I want to go on vacation. |
| LindaH | | (reply to bill) posted 19-Feb-2007 4:09pm |
The assistance rules are complicated. People send in paystubs, rent receipts and all kinds of jazz just to prove how burdened they are. If you aren't working, looking for work, or disabled, you can forget about rent assistance. A lot of times, they set the 'burden' really tight, so you have to be realy really hurting. A lot of times that doesn't work out well for people who make enough, but owe other people money, on top of their rent. They can't go lax on anyone, but they can't account for everything either. It's a hard system to provide for every case. |
| RGirl | | posted 19-Feb-2007 4:28pm |
They are essential and we need the laws but they do cause some illegal workers and decrese the number of jobs. |
| LindaH | | posted 19-Feb-2007 4:29pm |
How do they cause illegal workers? |
| Amanda | | posted 19-Feb-2007 6:09pm |
It's not enough. Here, minimum wage is something like $5.75. How do they expect someone to live off that? What sucks is that minimum wage paying jobs often involve more labor than higher paying jobs. So, these people are busting their ass and still not making enough to make ends meet. It seems like a fudgeed up system, to me. At my last job, as a manager, I was making $8.00 an hour. What's sad is that this is seen as good money around here. It's pitiful. |
| RGirl | | (reply to LindaH) posted 20-Feb-2007 12:18am |
Because illegal workers will work for less and they have no 'minimum wage' rights so they can't make any demands on their salary. |
| LindaH | | (reply to RGirl) posted 20-Feb-2007 12:24am |
How do they have no minimum wage rights? They're getting paid under the table? |
| RGirl | | (reply to LindaH) posted 20-Feb-2007 1:37am |
Yes. Like the construction company goes to a place to pick up day laborers. They pay them cash and don't record them as an employee or use false papers. The migrant workers get paid by how much they pick or piece work and they take the low pay because they are illegal and can't get a job where they have the right to earn minimum wage. |
| Amanda | | (reply to LindaH) posted 20-Feb-2007 1:47am |
What Pennyann said.
It's not uncommon for illegal workers to work for only $20 a day or so. They'll work 10-12 hours, doing manual labor. So, they're only making about $2.00 an hour. Around here, a lot of construction companies and farmers use them. These men will work their ass off for next to nothing. It's really kind of sad. |
| RGirl | | (reply to Amanda) posted 20-Feb-2007 1:55am |
Where I lived, in Washington Mo they had Happy Apple and the migrant workers would come and work there in season. After awhile they found they could find all year jobs, still illegal, but they started to stay. We were getting quite a hispanic population going for a small town. I remember my mom told me when she gave paychecks to people somewhere she worked people would have social security numbers of '000-00-0000' or all ones or something. |
| LindaH | | (reply to RGirl) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:01am |
OK. I see how minimum wage encorages that sort of thing. I must say though, I kind of liked working for cash. It somehow felt justified, not wrong, like I had every right to be doing it. I didn't feel taken advantage of at all. |
| Amanda | | (reply to RGirl) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:02am |
They pay these people in cash. I've also heard that some of them will end up not paying them what they agreed on or not paying them at all. And, there's nothing they can do about it. Who are they going to tell? They're here illegally and want to stay under the radar. |
| LindaH | | (reply to Amanda) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:02am |
Isn't it better than them not having a job at all? |
| Amanda | | (reply to LindaH) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:03am |
I've worked for cash in the past. I liked it, too. I ended up making more money than I would've made had they taken out taxes. But, in cases like this, they usually pay very little money. |
| LindaH | | (reply to Amanda) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:03am |
ok.. well I can see how that would be a problem. |
| Amanda | | (reply to LindaH) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:05am |
Probably. But, a lot of these men are trying to support their families. I don't see how they can manage on so little money. |
| LindaH | | (reply to Amanda) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:28am |
And they can't get regular jobs because they are illegal immigrants? |
| Amanda | | (reply to LindaH) posted 20-Feb-2007 2:31am |
Yeah. They have no social security number, no work visa, or anything like that, so they can't get a regular job. They can only work cash paying jobs, where it's not reported to the government. |
| Enheduanna | | posted 20-Feb-2007 9:30am |
I think they're good. |
| Enheduanna | | posted 20-Feb-2007 9:42am |
Hmmm. Well, now I'm not sure. But if we got rid of the minimum wage, then we would have to find another way to help, because there's no way wages would even out to a standard minimum that was enough to live on. In a capitalist society, there's always someone willing to work for less, which is why they instituted minimums in the first place. So getting rid of the minimum wage would require a massive expansion of welfare programs. Perhaps the politicians and others who defend a fixed minimum wage are doing so because they know it's more likely to pass (and be popular) than an expansion of welfare is. |
| Cain | | posted 20-Feb-2007 2:03pm |
When I was an employee, I was ecstatic everytime the minimum wage went up because inevitably I was on it. Now that I'm running a business and am an employer, the rising minimum wage is putting a strain on my business and means I can only afford to pay people for a lesser number of shifts, so essentially, they don't get any more money.
I do think it's necessary though, otherwise too many workers can be exploited. |
| Enigma | | posted 20-Feb-2007 2:10pm |
I don't know where the person who created this survey lives but where I'm from, minimum wage is not a living wage. I had employee's for years and I would never even start anyone out at minimum wage.
Where did the idea of minimum wage being a way to redistribute wealth come from? How would that even be fair? |
| RGirl | | (reply to Amanda) posted 21-Feb-2007 12:45am |
And send some home and support that part of the family. |
| Amanda | | (reply to RGirl) posted 21-Feb-2007 11:09am |
People always make jokes about how many Hispanic people can lie under one roof. It seems like the truth behind it is that the illegals can't afford not to live like that. |
| cabinfever | | posted 22-Feb-2007 2:23am |
I think that the high minimum wages like here in Oregon and Washington put an unfair burden on small businesses. |
| JessicaWoman99 | | posted 22-Feb-2007 10:30am |
The minimum wage does not go far enough with prices going up on
most everything and the paycheck will get smaller and smaller |
| JessicaWoman99 | | (reply to Amanda) posted 22-Feb-2007 10:37am |
> It's not enough. Here, minimum wage is something like $5.75. How do
> they expect someone to live off that? What sucks is that minimum wage
> paying jobs often involve more labor than higher paying jobs. So,
> these people are busting their ass and still not making enough to
> make ends meet. It seems like a fudgeed up system, to me. At my last
> job, as a manager, I was making $8.00 an hour. What's sad is that
> this is seen as good money around here. It's pitiful.
Yes how in the world can somebody live off of $5.75 an hour is beyond me Amanda
with rent sky high and water and electric rates going to the moon
There is almost no way to live on this and if you have children it really gets tight and squeezes you
and all you have left is perhaps $1.00 left if you are lucky enough |
| mve17 | | posted 25-Feb-2007 8:46am |
I don't even get minimum wage..
Apprentices are poo apparantly.. |
| Gomezy3k | | posted 25-Feb-2007 9:44am |
They are for starting workers...untortunately, trying to betteryourself and get a better paying job is very hard. There is a huge gap in wages and the cost of living makes it worse. The minimum wage does NOT provide a living wage. Ever try to live on that amount? You need to work 3 jobs just to be able to survive... |
| kitti723 | | posted 19-Mar-2007 10:50am |
Sometimes when the min. wage is increased it allows for new people w. less skill to get a raise therefore making experienced people who have been with a company a long, long time feel like they're not getting paid enough since it is now closer to that of the person who just started last week. That is my experience. I would like to think that everyone deserves more but that may not always be true. |
