Do you like to see successful people falter, fail, or get into trouble?

When Donald Trump was becoming more well known because of The Apprentice so many people were telling me how they "hated" him and they wish he'd get stomped. Having read The Art of the Deal I knew he had been stomped many times already but when I told people this it really seemed like they wanted to see him hit rock bottom big time. Try mentioning Bill Gates to people - most will tell you they dislike him too. It wouldn't intrigue me so much if it didn't just seem they are disliked for no reason that can be pinpointed.

Only when they're trying to do something that I think is wrong or bad. I like to see people succeed.

Only people who don't deserve their success

Not really. Unless their name rhymes with Forge Bubble You Mush.

It can be satisfying when it's someone I don't like. But I don't envy others' success or want to see them fail simply because of it.

Brilliant

Thanks! It was the best I could come up with in a pinch...

On very rare occasions I have, but I was upset or in a bad mood.

No why would anyone want to see anyone fail, falter, or get into trouble?

not especially

yes, of course

I don't see how you actually care if or not he succeeds. As long as he doesn't get hold of any power I don't see why it matters. Besides, he's gonna be out in only 4 years anyway so I don't see whats the big deal.

If he write an auto-biography like 5 years from now and get successful for it, then good for him, but as long as he's not in a position where he can cause more damage then I don't care.

Only people who think they are above the law.

Not really but I do get a feeling of satisfaction when it happens to a jerk.

> Not really. Unless their name rhymes with Forge Bubble You Mush.


*snicker*

> No why would anyone want to see anyone fail, falter, or get into trouble?


'Cause you hate 'em?

He has power. Just because he hasn't declared martial law and suspended all civil rights doesn't mean he doesn't have power. And I don't like the things he is doing to our country. I would be very happy if he were somehow removed from office, just so long as Dick Cheney went along with him.

"He has power. Just because he hasn't declared martial law and suspended all civil rights doesn't mean he doesn't have power."

Well, theoroleticly Clinton had that same amount of power. I don't think that any rational president (not even W, he's still in the rational range (maybe borderline, but still)) would declare martial law and I don't think that he even can suspend some civil rights out there.

Anyway when you said that you wanted him to fail, I thought you meant financailly, not just power-wise. Once he's out of office I don't care how successful he gets.

"Try mentioning Bill Gates to people - most will tell you they dislike him too."

I think that might have more to do with him making a crappy operating system than all the money he's got

I definitely meant failure in every way!
And I didn't think Clinton was taking the country in a bad direction.

Only when they're butt-holes.

And I didn't think Clinton was taking the country in a bad direction.

No, but he did have the power to. If he (or any other president) wanted to, he could off declared martial law if he wanted to at any time. But he didn't, and neither did Bush. W did do some other stupid things though but he'll be out of office in less than 4 years now and I have a feeling that he won't do any more further damage. After that, I don't care what he does. He can go on Oprah or the Daily Show or write an autobiography for all I care. It doesn't matter to me as long as he's not put in a position to screw things up.

But he's there now. And I have no such confidence that he won't do more damage.

Yes, I find it amusing. The entertainment value is irresistible. I'm not saying it makes me happy (unless it's someone like Pink or Avril Lavigne or Gwyneth Paltrow) just that it kills my boredom.

Nope. I think it's great when people are successful.

Okay. I lied. There are some people that I like to see fail, but only people who have been handed their successes or let it go to their head.

Well.... it looks like they may be closing and cutting back jobs from some bases, and none of my least favorite people will be affected, dagnabbit.

yes, all the time!!!

No because that's just mean-spirited.

You might be right there. Hehehe.

How are you Irene?

Just with certain people, like Micheal Jackson.

Those who act superior or better than everyone else, or believe that because of birth or some talent that they are better than others need to get a reality check and seeing them fall and suddenly see that they are just like the rest of us peons is great...

It is all we ever hear these days, like with Martha Stewart and there was Jimmy Swaggert and Exon.

No

No, I like to hope that I will be among them some day and I resent people that are so jealous that they take pleasure in this.

Nobody gets to where he is without suffering and persevering. He actually did that show because he was on the verge of financial trouble.

Technically he didn't make it, he actually stole it from Steve Jobs and marketed it........There is a movie about it.

I do hate people that hurt others such as entire companies ie) Enron. That is only because the greed hurt all the employees, stockholders and many others!

Martha Stewart must feel like a criminal with the ankle bracelet and she can still make millions?

It was the Enron Corporation that I was thinking about and Exon has been up to no good as well after those oil spills.

> Not really. Unless their name rhymes with Forge Bubble You Mush.

I have similar feelings. Though, it's kind of tough at times since it can cause me to hope the US will fail. I don't really want that. But, I would like to see that Mush's policies fail thus proving he's wrong. If things go well, then he will appear to have been right and we may be stuck with this Mush Doctrine for decades! But, I don't really want the economy to falter or for things in Iraq to completely go to hell.

I don't think the entire country has to fail in order for him and his policies to fail. It would certainly be the showiest manner in which he could fail, but I could think of plenty of other ways. It would give me the most pleasure if it were an entirely domestic phenomenon (especially since the rest of the world already seems to have figured out what a schmo he is). I'd love to see his approval ratings dip into the single digits as people come to their senses en masse and demand that he turn Iraq over to the UN, abandon his Social Security privatization and ensure that the current system remain solvent, and find a viable gasoline alternative in the next five years. Not that that will ever happen...

Oh, hey, so I finished Kavalier and Clay a week or so ago. I really liked it. I didn't really know much about the plot of the book before I started it, and I was pleasantly surprised by it. And it was well written--good characters. Definitely a good read overall. What did you think of it?

I've heard Mush opponents say that him taking on social security was a good thing since he doesn't have full support for that (even from conservatives). He is likely to fail and spend a lot of time doing so. So, it may result in his second term doing a lot less damage than it might have if he'd focused on other issues. Though, I think it's ironic too, because I think SS is in big trouble and needs serious changes to be fixed. But, most politicians are just ignoring the issue. So, I have some respect for him for taking on an unpopular problem.


K&C - I had a very similar experience with it. I had only heard vaguely that it was good and that it was about Golden Age comic book people. It had good characters that I ended up liking a lot and good side stories like the golem and escape artist in Prague or Sam's love life. It had a pleasant emotional warmth to it. It kept me interested and entertained all the way through.

This is a bit of a stretch, but I would say it had a structure similar to Cryptonomicon. There was a sense of adventure throughout it. It was told in a non-linear way; chapters took you to various places and times (though, not in a confusing way).

I'm glad you liked it!

I hadn't thought of the parallel to Cryptonomicon, but I see what you mean. I'm glad I liked it, too! Right now I'm reading this book called Bee Season, which is also about a Jewish family. The daughter, who had seemed somewhat unexceptional, turns out to be a spelling prodigy. The father is into mysticism, and the mother is a kleptomaniac. It's very good--despite the fact that they're terrible parents, you end up sort of feeling for them.

I agree that something needs to be done about Social Security--and I'm glad that people aren't too keen on Mush's plan. But it seems to me that there's an easy fix--raising the taxes--although it wouldn't be too popular. I just read somewhere that repealing Bush's tax cuts would create enough revenue to fix the problem.

I heard this documentary about the National Spelling Bee: Spellbound (2002) is very good. Though, I haven't managed to see it yet.

I've heard it's good, too. I think it won an Oscar. Maybe I'll watch it when I'm done with this book!

I've been really busy as you can imagine... Ben's commemoration was this past Saturday - it went really well. I should have some pictures soon - I'll post them. It was a great gathering, something to give everyone some closure. It was sad but very warm at the same time. Kinda gave some people, even the coldest of hearts, a "touchy-feely" kind of warmth. I can see that I was not the only one to love Ben.

That is good, keeping busy that is. I am sure that if Ben was anything like you, EVERYONE loved him and will surely miss him. I hope you and your family are doing well as can be. And if you need anything, let me know.

I needed just what you gave me right now!

Yeah I guess she does not count as one that I look up to.

Only if they are butt-holes.

Buttholes they will always be, Pat Robertson of the 700 Club he has lasted all these years I am surprised?

who??

CBN The 700 Club ever hear of this? It is on both the Family Channel and KTBN and some other channels as well, it is a world wide outreach and you could look them up on the cbn.com Christian Broadcasting Network Virginia Beach, Virginia and Pat Robertson is a Baptist himself and he does get very critical of people and says some mean and harsh things.

www.cbn.com this might work

Aaah that would explain it - aside from not living in the US, Christian Broadcasting Network is definitely something I'm not likely to pay attention to!

And Pat Robertson has been in the United States Senate I think it was? He is such a loud mouth and puts people down and judges and condemns like all the rest.

No, why??

If it happens I figure it is karma.

who doesnt?