Is there such a thing as an absolute "Truth"?

Yes, pure water is made of Hydrogen and Oxygen.

I think there are one or two very general ones. Everything else is relative. The one big one in my book is the sanctity of human life. But I'm sure many people will disagree with me even on that.

I think you're right. Just tell the "rat people" that people are more important than rats; then, sit back and watch the sparks fly.

Sure, following one's own spiritual path, and not allowing oneself to be led lind by organized religions.

no, not really. Pretty much everything is open to some type of interpetation. Even if its not really human.

Yea , I guess like Mathematics

make a survey about doing medical research on rats. Then if one of them dies, make a survey about how much should their ow-- um I mean gardians sue for malpractice.

ok, change vote, I guess there are certain things that are non-negotialbe, allthough some philosophy major will come up with a way to try to disprove that.

While on the surface that's hilarious, I want to avoid the rat people as much as possible; I consider them quasi trolls.

BTW: what ultimately happened with Bob?

did you know that mathematicians tried once to prove that one plus one is two. Apparantly the proff was several hundred pages long.

I'm not really talking about human life in comparison to other kinds of life, though. Human life is valuable in its own right, not in relation to any animals killed to try to save it. Rats may be valuable, too, but that's not the issue here.

I don't follow: are you saying universal acceptance of the sanctity of human life is not relative to other life? I think.

Yes...there is.

Yep. The father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Some would say Jesus Christ. Some would say God. Some would say a relationship with. Some would say faith in. I just state the main point and cover it all.

while I share you faith, surley you recognize that it's not accepted universally.

really?............. What a waste of time

apparantly not for them. aparantly they have lots of spare time on their hands.

Yes. Human life is valuable in and of itself, not in relation to other forms of life.

Is that part or your thesis, a personal belief, an observation...what?

Yes in mathematics, chemistry.

That would be amusing!

They are called "FACTS"

Just a personal belief.

> did you know that mathematicians tried once to prove that one plus
> one is two. Apparantly the proff was several hundred pages long.

And how long did it take to prove the quantity that "one" resented?

How do you know that the water isn't an illusion?

i believe their is absolute truth that we must find within ourselves but that we each have our own truth while walking this world.

I don't know, I wasnt in on the project. I just heard about it from a second hand source. THe point is that the concept seems a bit stupid. What exactly is the point anyway.

Of course there is. Philosophy majors and others analysing things like this to the point of redefining them think too much.
I think people like to take the discomfort out of uncertainty by declaring that nothing is certian.

Hey there I e-mailed you Matt and never got a reply. Please check. Hey I saw the user page, your wife is beautiful. You are a lucky man. Watch out for Cerealkiller, he would certainly love her.

I was jokeing. But the number 1 (quantity) would need to be established before you could add it to itself, right?

No.
But then, what I've just said isn't true.... arrggghhh

cause Nietze died by his own hand, alone, broke, and drunk,...so much for that bullcrap.

Thanks, for the complement about wife. I'll check my e-mail too.

And thanks for the tip, I'll clean my firearms and give my Rotty, Stiffy, a description of Cerealkiller

never got anything...did you send any kind of attachment???

Most things that people consider "truth" are subjective. Even most scientific facts are more hypotheses that have been stated as facts. The few things that are really objectively true are things on the order of "this thing is sitting on top of that thing".

Why are they more important than Zeus and Heracles, or Odin and Thor?

I don't see why giving the science example Maarten did in qual should be deemed "smartass". Under x circumstances, combining a and b will always result in c and d. I think it holds true for moral situations as well - you can't generalise maybe, but take a very specific situation and you can say, in this situation, this act is always wrong.

I wonder if that sort of thing would work for binary numbers too

Think about it, if you met someone that had absolutely no knowledge of math. How would you describe to him the concept of numbers and addition. What is a one? And when you add it to itself and you get two (what the hell is a two?)(what is addition?) You would have better luck getting directions from a chinese.

that person may not have a concept of mathematics as we know it, however s/he can count. If someone has a family with two kids and a spouse, that person knows how to gather enough oranges for lunch, etc. Is that math?...no Is that rudimentary understanding enough to grasp that you need two more oranges?...you betcha

No. Truth is relative.

"...depends on what the definition of IS is"....

"....there are things we know we know....and things we know we don't know....and then there are things we don't know that we don't know....."........LOL

I agree, it was the interaction that I thought would interesting.

fair enough, but I think that's the problem with over-relativist discussions. We could discuss 1 + 1 = 2 until the end of time, yet vvdkjvndkjhn gathers two more oranges for his two kids every day. I say too much relatavism leads to mental masturbation.

Oh, sorry, I was speaking generally, not about your discussion with SY. Please don't take offense at that.

You are correct. The question posed about absolute "truths" is, in fact, a logic question. Maybe I should've made that clear before now? Logical equations are very similar to mathematical equations, but I am not suggesting that someone prove it using logical statements. I don't even remember how to do it.

No no attachment. I have no online pics or anything. I will look again. email is on the user page. You have a rott? Oh cool I love those dogs. I will try your email again.

great, I look forward to it

yes, a German rotty

Don't worry, I mentally masturbate on a regular basis. You know what they say, don't use it, you will loose it!

I guess. I didnt think of it that way.

Ever heard of "Schrödinger's cat"?

How he meant it, and how you choose to receive it, is your choice. I felt a twist but chose to ignore it. Besides what’s wrong with mental masturbation?

I suppose there is, in the way that if there was no Truth, that would be the Truth, so Truth must exist. But whatever the Truth is, I don't believe it can be known, because as creatures inside the universe (and taking up an infinitely small part of it), we are always unable to perceive the entire Big Picture. Truth was meant to be sought, not found. It cannot be put into words.

I don't know and don't care, why don't you gather a band of pseudo-intellectuals and investigate this issue.

I had not idea this survey was by you. I wanted to be even meaner in my response. I just hate Epistemology with passion. And last year my Phil 101 was filled with stupid pseudo-intellectuals who tried to discuss this subject.

I think so.

Mathematical formulae

It's actually solvable with about 5 statements. It was meant to be more of a logic question, but I failed utterly. It was the first time I created a survey on a whim.

If it's an absolute truth, it doesn't have to be more important.

Sorry for such a late reply.

Yes, I realize this, of course. Like I replied to Teddy Miller, short of hypnotism or torture, you can't make everyone accept one thing (yes, poor explination, but humor me, you [everyone, for that matter] get[s] what I'm trying to convey, I hope).

i guess in court, maybe

got it, replied

Ahhh, so you have been convicted; I didn't know capital criminals were allowed access to the internet. You are very lucky indeed.

You do your homework and read about the laws of this nation and voting will be more special for you when you can do so.

yes, I agree that I know nothing about how criminals such as yourself are treated

You have a sharp tongue, I believe that it true. i would have to wash your mouth out with soap..if i were that kind of person

1) Birth
2) Death

everything else is negotiable

Matty, I love this... and you tell them yourself... I KNOW people are more important.

south, I was sorta disappointed to see you sinking to their level, though I love a challenge!
Truth be told, I like this site because it's NOT about rats and I can talk about all the OT I want... (OT is Off Topic) But it takes all kinds of people and Karma always comes back...

I'm sorry, again I jut don't understand what the "this" is to which you are referring.

those "rat people" have no sense of humor. Besides, in some countries people DO actually eat rats, so whats the big deal. Its a lot more humane than killing them senselessly. Besides, considering the high amount of people (1/2 of world pop I think) living under 2 dollars a day, they might as well. Apparantly these "rat people" or whatever they call themselves these days dont understand that people come first, and they have no sense of humor neither.

So apparantly now according to them, I am a fancy rat eating troll (or FRET if you will, the acronym has a nice ring to it), whatever that is.

dont get me wrong, the opinions of the "rat people" are ok in themselves. Not to bash against them, I think that sometimes people take something a bit too far. Ok I get it, you like rats. I think thats the kind of attitude many of SC users have.

Hey, I heard roasted rat can be real tasty, I have zero problem with what others do with them. What I objected to, and it's really more in fun, were the unkind comments by a couple other guys about "those rat fans" implying we are all a bunch of noobs. THEN when he threw in a slur about the Mafia, I hadda respond... my Grandfather came to the USA in 1911 from Sicily. So, I get snipped once, no big deal, but when my ancestry gets trashed, time to say Whoa!

who was this one person. Its kinda hard to find things in that survey. It has so many posts and most of them are hella long. I'll have to use find to find the text you are refering to.

ya know, south, I was just thinking that the "reply" system is not very good here... like I don't get to my eagerly awaited replies until the next day, and then it's no where NEAR the post that sparked it. Is there any way to just reply to the single person and not the whole list? I guess when I reply, I will do a short synopsis so people down the line won't be so confused... hell, so "I" won't be so confused!

it's mostly Matty with rat-phobia, but BillyBobBob got in on it, too...

funny you say that. Matty and BillyBobBob were going at it in chat the other day. Its nice to see them finally getting along


As far as the reply system, I think its the greatest that there ever was. First off, all your replies are buffered into the replys button. Secondly, it used to be worse. I remember when you had to reply and a long assed scroll bar was around. Oftentimes you'd reply to the wrong comment made by the right person and it takes a hella long time to figure out what is what. Its not until now that all your comments have those icons where you can reply directly by clicking them.

I don't have rat -phobia; I just don't like them. Further, what I took exception to, was the comparison of rat life to human life

hey, matty, I just took HOURS it seems speed reading the miles of posts on that original survey... and from my 8 or 9 months on Ratlist, ya, they can get verbose! I personally am a dog person, but can't have either a dog or a cat where I live. And I personally like the "flame wars" but it's best closer to the topic. I enjoy hot discussions, and I hope by my survey responses, I don't push my rats, though I sometimes DO mention Jay and Silent Bob. I noticed right away who the "movers and shakers" are here in SC. I respect your dedication to expressing differing points of interest. I am not being facitious, either... I can be a bit of an instigator, too! Cheers, and thanks for welcoming me in! Pat

Look, my whole point with the rat thing is that I don't care what people do int heir house; I didn't get pissed until the "I prefer rats to people" crap. I would never have anything against you or your rats as long as you are a reasonable and nice person; and so far, you seem ok to me.

But some people that flooded the discussion seemed compl;etely full of crap to me, so I escalated as well. I'm combatant by nature. Some of my dearest friends have nicknamed me "Alpha Male." I spent 8 years in the Army and now work in "parts unknown" in the Federal government. So yeah, I come heavy or I don't come at all. Anyway, I welcome you and your rats

Matty, you're a trip... we got a lot more in common than you know! And did you know that rats (both wild and domestic) have an Alpha Male (and female, too) and often there are scuffles and outright fights for dominance!
To be honest, I respond when goaded, too. I got a lot of military and security people in my background... matter of fact, I have some men friends seek me out because I seem to understand "that" area better than most ladies... someone even asked me once what branch I'd been in! My father was a cop for a while, too... I grew up on Dragnet (starting in the 50's) So, said all that to say this, I'm glad we agree we're both nice people! I look forward to more "may we live in interesting times" surveys! Pat

Rats, wolves, hyenas, alligators. Alligators are what my friends use to describe me, you know, bellowing to scare other male alligators for miles around. Apparently, I'm an alpha male alligator...watch out for my snout!!!

Being the dog person I am, the Wolf is my totem animal... but I watch a LOT of nature shows, and the Hynea is totally fascinating.

Speaking on the big reptiles, I still like the saying,( and this is NOT directed at you) "Don't let your alligator mouth over ride your hummingbird a*s!" My late sig other was real fond of that one! He also liked to say... "you'll crap if ya eat regular"

I say "BLEh BLEH BLEH BLEH BLEH BLEH BLEH BLEH BLEH" and scare the other alligators away.

I bet water dances on your back when you bellow, too! True thing... its the vibrations!
Now the Nile Crocodile, that's a dangerous boy! Salty's cousin, as the Croc Hunter would say.

Yes there is. Look at this example:

"Does this outfit make me look fat?"
"Yes"
"Were you listening"
""