| User | Comment |
|---|
| EyesOfCharisma | | posted 10-Oct-2004 11:40pm |
YES THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!! I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!
i dont even understand the question. |
| darkshadowsseeker | | posted 10-Oct-2004 11:53pm |
Who gives a crap? Not me! |
they   | | posted 11-Oct-2004 12:12am |
nah..... |
| thevelvetcure | | posted 11-Oct-2004 2:05am |
Define bother, what bothers me is the fact that the US thinks that it is the world, and the most important country.  |
| icurok | | posted 11-Oct-2004 5:30am |
Since hardly anyone outside the US gives a damn about baseball, they may as well call themselves the World Champion for all I care.
The same thing goes for the winner of the cow 'chip' throwing contest in Oklahoma. They can be World Champion too if they want. |
bill   | | posted 11-Oct-2004 7:17am |
I guess I'm assuming that few other countries play this silly game, so it's OK to say world. I think Japan does, but I don't think it's as big there. |
| Maarten | | posted 11-Oct-2004 9:16am |
Talking about American arrogance!  |
| mitachoo | | posted 11-Oct-2004 10:21am |
I am a baseball fan but always considered it really arrogant for the World Series winner to be labeled as “World Champions”. |
cerealkiller  | | posted 11-Oct-2004 11:42am |
I don't follow sports of any kind. Boring. |
| caviartaste | | posted 11-Oct-2004 12:36pm |
I have thought about this before, actually.....and wondered... |
| Iseult | | posted 11-Oct-2004 1:58pm |
You know, I have a life and real life problems. I don't have enough time to worry about the States and baseball. |
| Enheduanna | | posted 11-Oct-2004 5:22pm |
No. |
| Zang | | posted 11-Oct-2004 5:45pm |
Perhaps if something were done to rectify this, I would be able to sleep better at night. |
| Biggles | | posted 11-Oct-2004 6:22pm |
I wouldn't say that it bothers me, but I do think it's kind of odd. |
| southernyankee | | posted 11-Oct-2004 7:49pm |
no, because I dont care about baseball and feel that they can call whatever the hell they want to. Its just a title, and anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that.
besides, isn't Montreal in Canada? |
| JB98 | | posted 11-Oct-2004 8:46pm |
All the great players from all the other countries play in the United States. There's no question Major League Baseball is a global game, and it's champion is rightfully declared a "World Champion." I'll bet half the players on my favorite team come from a country other than the U.S. Further, I'd bet everything I own that the World Series champion would beat the champion of any other organized baseball league in the world. |
| leahdoll |
I agree with you 1000%. It makes me sick sometimes to think of how ethnocentric the US is. |
| Irene007 | | posted 14-Oct-2004 1:39am |
Yes - it sure does!! Especially since I'm from Montreal and I'm loosing a team that had a good chance at winning the Pennant back in 1994-95. It was between the Expos and the Blue Jays but the strike happened conveniently, just at that time... Negotiation between the union and owners over contract terms had been happening since 1972 yet they locked-out that year... God forbid a Canadian team should win the Pennant! How convenient ! |
| Irene007 |
> YES THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!! I CANNOT BELIEVE IT!
>
> i dont even understand the question.
There are 28 American teams playing against 1 (used to be 2) Canadian team and when they win; they call themselves the world champions. In simpler terms; it's like having "American Idol" in the State of Alabama with 28 contestants from that state and only one from another state and then calling the winner the champion of the US.
28 + 1 teams don't represent the world no more than 28 +1 contestants represent the US.
Such arrogance! |
| Irene007 | | (reply to icurok) posted 14-Oct-2004 1:54am |
> Since hardly anyone outside the US gives a damn about baseball, they
> may as well call themselves the World Champion for all I care.
>
Outside the US?? Have you ever taken note of the names in the so-called American baseball teams lately?
America doesn't have the best players in any sport - it just has the money to buy the best from around the world and then claim that they are the best.
Don't you get it? America doesn't have that many values, just lots of money... |
| Irene007 | | (reply to Zang) posted 14-Oct-2004 1:57am |
> Perhaps if something were done to rectify this, I would be able to
> sleep better at night.
Yeah! You can say that... YOU didn't loose your baseball team!  |
| Irene007 |
> besides, isn't Montreal in Canada?
Yes the Montreal Expos were in Canada! But like the Nordique Hockey team became the Colorado Avalance (quote from http://www.hockey-fans.com/northwest/avalanche/);
"The Nordiques and Canadiens would have their last postseason meeting in 1993. The Canadiens won two overtime games and dispatched of their bitter rivals in a hard fought series. Their financial situation worsened as the team struggled on the ice. The consortium of owners asked the various levels of governments for help with the team. The Nordiques had an old facility and were lacking many of the revenue schemes enjoyed by American teams. In 1995 they were sold to the COMSAT Entertainment Group and moved to Denver, Colorado. "
gosh darn! That was great hockey to watch when they were around! It's not like they weren't good, they didn't win and they just didn't have the money to compete with their big brothers down south.
It's this big money that prompted me to post this survey;
http://surveycentral.org/?S=869818&QX=by+-+irene00...
I'm almost happy that the hockey strike is on - I hope the owners don't back down on the salary cap. It's ridiculous to pay millions of dollars a year to a 20 yr old player! I know they're at their best when they are young but they're also inexperienced - in general! How can a 20 yr old deal with that kind of money? I know... They buy sports cars and kill people! Yeah... That's it. Moneys paid to players should come back down to earth and maybe we could have real home teams again, playing for values and not money. It's not fair when you live next to a country that has almost as much land as its neighbour but has 295,000,000 population compared to 32,500,000 here. Of course the US has the money to buy who ever they want...
It just doesn't make for good sports in general - all the BS that exist today was generated on that side of the border. What's the point, here in Canada, of starting teams that just get gobbled up in the US?
So... America is the World Champion... Big deal! I'm really not impressed.
The teams in the states are like silicone breasts - anybody can have them if you pay for them.
FAKE!! |
| icurok | | (reply to Irene007) posted 14-Oct-2004 6:38am |
> Outside the US?? Have you ever taken note of the names in the so-called American baseball teams lately?
> America doesn't have the best players in any sport - it just has the money to buy the best from around the
> world and then claim that they are the best. Don't you get it? America doesn't have that many values,
> just lots of money...
Erm.. I'm not sure what you're implying, or how what you're implying is contradictory to what I originally said. Did I say that America had values? Did I say that it didn't? Why did you reply to my comment in that way?
What's wrong with players from other countries playing in the MLB? What's wrong with the free movement of labour? Why should someone who is great at baseball not get the chance to play it in front of thousands of fans because they were born in a country where it isn't profitable to operate a professional baseball league? Why should they be punished because of an accident of geography?
The fact is that there are very few countries in the world where baseball is popular enough to be one of the top 5 spectator sports. The same goes for basketball and american football. They are not global sports in the way that football is. That doesn't mean that there aren't talented individuals around the world that want to play them.
My original point was that I don't particularly care how America decides to name the club trophies for its own sports. |
| Irene007 | | (reply to icurok) posted 14-Oct-2004 7:28am |
...aw... I'm just sore about loosing another team.  But I do feel strongly about real home teams.
I don't even like baseball! |
| icurok | | (reply to Irene007) posted 14-Oct-2004 8:23am |
Franchising in American sports is hardly a new thing. NFL teams move around all the time. I don't personally agree with it as I think that a sports team is about more than just money.
It is a new thing here. Wimbledon (a suburb of south London) used to have a professional football team, but the owners decided they couldn't keep the club going unless they moved out of London altogether and relocated to Milton Keynes. They've now renamed the team to the MK Dons. Incensed fans started up their own amateur club, Wimbledon AFC which is progressing through the pyramid system that makes up the lower leagues.
What confuses me is that baseball seems to be relatively popular in Canada. Perhaps not as popular Ice Hockey, but certainly more popular than it is in Europe. Why would a MLB club in Canada need to be moved at all? Would the crowds be significantly higher in DC? Does the MLB think that the idea of not having a team in the nation's capital is strange? Is it easier to simply buy an existing fringe club and move it than it is to set up a new one from scratch? Is it possible to set up a new one, or is there a set number of teams allowed? Are there not enough top players around to make a new club viable?
Forgive my ignorance, I'm just curious. |
| Irene007 | | (reply to icurok) posted 14-Oct-2004 9:34am |
Join the ignorant club! I can't even answer those very valid questions... I think it's just about money - the owner sold the club to the biggest bidder who just happened to be an American. |
| Zang | | (reply to Irene007) posted 14-Oct-2004 11:18am |
No I didn't.
Do I HAVE a baseball team?  |
| southernyankee | | (reply to Irene007) posted 14-Oct-2004 6:44pm |
"I'm almost happy that the hockey strike is on - I hope the owners don't back down on the salary cap. It's ridiculous to pay millions of dollars a year to a 20 yr old player! I know they're at their best when they are young but they're also inexperienced - in general! How can a 20 yr old deal with that kind of money? I know... They buy sports cars and kill people! Yeah... That's it. Moneys paid to players should come back down to earth and maybe we could have real home teams again, playing for values and not money. It's not fair when you live next to a country that has almost as much land as its neighbour but has 295,000,000 population compared to 32,500,000 here. Of course the US has the money to buy who ever they want...
It just doesn't make for good sports in general - all the BS that exist today was generated on that side of the border. What's the point, here in Canada, of starting teams that just get gobbled up in the US?
So... America is the World Champion... Big deal! I'm really not impressed.
The teams in the states are like silicone breasts - anybody can have them if you pay for them.
FAKE!! "
I agree with you on the issue, but for a diffferent reason. I think the salary gap is a good thing because it evens the playing field. If teams are allowed to spend all the money they want, then the rich owners will get all the best players and the poor (relatively, off course  ) owners will get all the not-so-great players. Then the richER owners will win everytime, the games will become *more* boring, and the rich will become richer and the poor will become poorer. With the salary cap, this would even the playing field and the winning team would be the one that managages their resources better and whose players have the most heart. Example, Tom Benson. He's the owner of the NO Saints (and the owner of a used car dealership) and spends the most $$ in the NFL. Does it amount to anything. NO. Why, because he doesn't spend it where he needs to. Besides, the Saints arent as discipled as perhaps they should.
Now, back to your original point. "It's ridiculous to pay millions of dollars a year to a 20 yr old player!" (Perhaps I am a bit biased when I ask you this question, but,) why so?
Seriously, why?
"How can a 20 yr old deal with that kind of money?"
the same way a 30 year old, or a 40 year old would. Why should age be a prerequiste to earning a sum of money. Perhaps we should put of safeguards so that a 30 year-old will never earn more than a million dollars a year, and a 40-year-old not more than $2. I know that in Canada, capitalism is viewed with more cynism than over here, but you are still a free county right?
"They buy sports cars and kill people!"
because of their immaturity I suppose. I am assuming that is the point you are trying to make.
As opposed to the 40-year-olds who buy red fast cars.
Why is the fact that some countries have less people than others unfair? Could all the frozen ice up in Canada be the cause of there being less people than over here per unit area?
Team's don't "get gobbled up" like you say. They move because they don't win enough games. And it never too late to start another team. There is no restriction that a team from Canada can't start a baseball team. Now, in all fairness, I am not sure if Mexico is allowd either. Or much less Japan. If we really did live in a true capitaltist system, like you said, and like I think we perhaps should, Japan could start teams and compete against the US in the same fashion. I think that would make the game more interesting, but thats just me.
|
| Irene007 |
Why is the fact that some countries have less people than others unfair? Could all the frozen ice up in Canada be the cause of there being less people than over here per unit area?
 No. It's all the black flies! 
Team's don't "get gobbled up" like you say. They move because they don't win enough games. And it never too late to start another team. There is no restriction that a team from Canada can't start a baseball team.
It may seem that way... It's all relative - attendance is low when a team is not winning and here I am blaming the players and the owners but the fans are to blame as well... Teams move because of lack of money and the owners want to dump their not so lucrative investment - it's just not fun when the bucks aren't rolling in so sell!
I won't bother answering all your other questions about money and age - I was just off on a rant last night. It's all rather pointless because things are not about to change.
It really does bother me that the ONE time a Canadian team could have won the Pennant, the strike was started and yet, there had been talk about it since the 70s... Why at that particular moment? Remember the time the Canadian flag was shown at a game upside down during their winning streak? They did the same to the Japanese flag when the US played against them, only no one noticed!
About starting new teams... What's the point? If the first team was lost because of the lack of money it generated - how will the next one change anything? The fans have to get involved and not just when the team is winning.
One thing I really feel strongly about is seeing real home teams - it would be interesting. I'm almost sure that if a new league (regardless of the sport) was started with players that actually could claim that they are from that city's team - it would generate a new sense of what the sport is really about. I just find it a little obscene to see people cheering for their team at the end of a season and then find that half of the players they were booing the previous year are now part of their team...
|
| southernyankee | | (reply to Irene007) posted 14-Oct-2004 8:45pm |
It may seem that way... It's all relative - attendance is low when a team is not winning and here I am blaming the players and the owners but the fans are to blame as well... Teams move because of lack of money and the owners want to dump their not so lucrative investment - it's just not fun when the bucks aren't rolling in so sell!
About starting new teams... What's the point? If the first team was lost because of the lack of money it generated - how will the next one change anything? The fans have to get involved and not just when the team is winning.
ok, point granted. But you can't keep on doging at the fans forever. Hey, look, try living in New Orleans and being a football fan, and then you'd understand the frustration. Easy for anyone else to say, (unless you live in chicago and are a baseball fan, but thats a different story). Man, dispite all the awful disappointments, the fans still shell out the 80-bucks a game, for years and years, sticking with the team no matter what. At some point, wouldn't people say enough is enough. Either win a play off game for once dammit, or I'll be watching the next season from my couch.
One thing I really feel strongly about is seeing real home teams - it would be interesting. I'm almost sure that if a new league (regardless of the sport) was started with players that actually could claim that they are from that city's team - it would generate a new sense of what the sport is really about. I just find it a little obscene to see people cheering for their team at the end of a season and then find that half of the players they were booing the previous year are now part of their team...
your wish, appart from being impragmatic, is an anachormsim on so many levels you dont even know it. For starters, do you really want to limit it to BIRTH. A realistic hypotetical example in this day and age. If person X moves from his home state when he's 15, and lives the remainder of his life in some other place, where is he from? To take the point further, if person Y is from state A and moves to state B at the age of three, and moves to state C at age 21, and person Z askes person Z in a causual conversation, "hey, I am from H, where you from bra?". How should person Z respond. State A or State B. He can say, "weelll, I am origanllly from A but I lived in B all my life." On that note, what if multiple states /much less countries\ are involeved. Who the hell wants to answer a 2 word question with a paragraph. And who wants to listen it as a reply. Well, I am from here, then I moved here, then here cause I got expelled from high school for setting the football field on fire, then I move there cause I got a job offer, then I left cause the property taxes were too high, etc etc. WHO WANTS TO SIT THROUGH THAT.
Your wish also gets more complicated in football (unlike the relativly simple recrutment policies in baseball and basketball). Here's why. You totally forgot about college ball, didnt you. Condidering the popularity of NO around the world /for some unknown reason\, nearly half our students are from out-of-state. Dispite us not having a football team, you get the point. All NFL recriutments (unlike other sports) come from college players. That means, a home state for students would be too ambigious. Should they sign up with the team whose in the same city as their college /or the nearest\ and put it into zones, or should they go with their "home" state. God, you seriously not going to try to get a "ban" on going to a college in a different state if you plan to play a sport.
My thrid, and final, point: Fans, not just teams, migrate too. The average amerian moves like 6 or 7 times in his/her lifetime /or something like that\. So if one day I get a job offer in Saint Louis, should I be obliged to be a Rams fan? Ok, I could try to do both, with the limit when they play against each other. Who do I cheer for there. And too think your example is ambious.
"I just find it a little obscene to see people cheering for their team at the end of a season and then find that half of the players they were booing the previous year are now part of their team... "
To elaborate my point further, so you want ppl to boo someone simply based on geography, isnt that a form of zenaphobia. Besides, booing at a player because simply because they were BORN is a certain city is sooo stupid, .......
..... considering that granted, booing them for treason is so much *more* fun. |
| Irene007 |
|
| southernyankee | | (reply to Irene007) posted 15-Oct-2004 4:52pm |
Yes, perhaps a short waiting period could be put in place. But then woudnt the player have to sit out for those 5 years or whatever length while waiting for his residnecy requirement to come though. Besides, they allready have contracts. If you're signed with a team allreadly, your ass cant just move to play for some other team until the contract term is up. Isn't that enough? |
| Irene007 |
Tough... Contracts would be signed with this new league, with new players having new rules to start with. If they don't like it... Join the other league! I'm talking about creating a new kind of team with different rules - the old leagues could still exist along with this new one... It could work you know... |
| southernyankee | | (reply to Irene007) posted 15-Oct-2004 9:05pm |
so what would be the exact details on this.
If you wanna move, you need to wait out 5 years before playing for somebody else? |
| Irene007 |
Yep!  The point is to create real home teams. There are enough talented people out there who would play for less money than in the big league. I think it would start a trend where it would become more desirable for some type of players to be part of that kind of team... |
| southernyankee | | (reply to Irene007) posted 16-Oct-2004 11:12pm |
I guess that COULD work. I mean dont expect me to be a supper huge fan of this league if the players wouldnt be talented enough. I dont particulary have a bias against a league that isnt made up of "true" home teams, as long as it contains talented enough players who are entertaining to watch and take risks from time to time. |
| Irene007 |
I once was at our local ice rink to see my friend's son (from out of town) play a junior league game against our home team. I was so impressed - it was like watching real hockey!! I'm sure we could find players with plenty of talent!
BTW, our team beat the pants off of them! His team's players were all puny next to ours which caused his Mom to ask; "What the heck do you feed your kids out here?!?"
Must be the country air... |
| southernyankee | | (reply to Irene007) posted 17-Oct-2004 11:00am |
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| gusano | | posted 19-Oct-2004 11:18pm |
The NFL and NBA winners are also dubbed World Champions but with far less controversy. Noone doubts that the New England Patriots would trounce the USC Trojans or the LSU Tigers, or that the Detroit Pistons would destroy any international basketball team, but I suppose that there could be a baseball team or two in Japan who might give the marlins a genuine run for their money. |
