| User | Comment |
|---|
Maarten  |
If that's what they want, then that's what they should do. |
| Violet |
It's their life and their right. It doesn't bother me in any way. |
bill   |
I feel all tingly inside. |
| ROCKMAN |
Whatever floats your boat!  |
| Enheduanna |
I wish them the best of luck. |
| FordGuy |
I think it takes a LOT of guts. If a person is transgendered, it is a battle but it is worth it because they can never be happy being the gender they "aren't". |
| dora | | posted 9-Apr-2004 10:00am |
It's their business.
|
| romkey | | posted 9-Apr-2004 10:02am |
I'm concerned. I have absolutely no moral problems with it, but it's a huge undertaking, especially if you want to undergo surgery to change gender.
It can be really tough to be a teenager, period. When you have issues involving gender and sexuality it's even worse. I'd be concerned that a teenager may make decisions that they may not have enough experience or support to inform. But I'd give as much support and guidance as I possibly could. |
| mandy | | posted 9-Apr-2004 10:24am |
I think it's HAWT! |
| mandy | | (reply to bill) posted 9-Apr-2004 10:25am |
Me too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| bill | | (reply to mandy) posted 9-Apr-2004 10:31am |
Yes, but I was kidding.  |
| freebird | | posted 9-Apr-2004 10:41am |
If they feel that they are trapped in the wrong biological body or whatever it is their choice to live as how they want. Anyone should be able to live the way they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. |
| mandy | | (reply to bill) posted 9-Apr-2004 11:07am |
oh
So...I'm the weird one once again....*sighs* |
| Jody | | posted 9-Apr-2004 11:10am |
I've known a few transgendered men and, by and large, they characterize their situation as this: they were born with a birth defect - they have a penis. They have always felt uncomfortable/wrong about their gender. That said, I'm not sure at what point human beings are mature enough to make permanent decisions (such as surgery) in a rational way. I know that I was incapable of making balanced rational adult decisions that might have serious repercussions until I was in my 30's. |
| kitti723 | | posted 9-Apr-2004 11:15am |
There are alot of social standards that this goes against. There is also a heavy price to pay for going against these standards. I am absolutely FOR a person living their life as they fit as long as it causes no harm to others. I think a person in this situation may need a mentor, someone who's done just the same, to point out the positives and negatives of living their life this way. I have no problems with it but in today's society many people do. It also has alot to do with Geography. If you live in San Francisco, no one will turn their head but if you live in the south, you may want to opt for running shoes over high heels. |
LindaH   | | posted 9-Apr-2004 11:36am |
I don't judge them based on that. |
| Amanda | | posted 9-Apr-2004 11:47am |
It depends on who the boy is. If it's my friend's brother's girlfriend's aunt's brother-in-law then I don't have a problem with it. But, if it were my son, then I'd be totally against it. |
| Amanda | | posted 9-Apr-2004 11:48am |
"If you live in San Francisco, no one will turn their head but if you live in the south, you may want to opt for running shoes over high heels."
Well said, my dear, well said.  |
| bill | | (reply to mandy) posted 9-Apr-2004 11:49am |
Anyone who isn't weird in some way isn't being honest with themselves. But, you know that.
Weird is normal. I'm weird because I don't want kids and probably in a dozen other ways. |
| mandy | | (reply to bill) posted 9-Apr-2004 12:53pm |
Do people tell you you are weird because you DV8 from wanting to procreate?....if so, that sux. |
| Zang |
I suppose it depends on how many boys...I can imagine it would get quite crowded in the bathroom if she were getting ready for a night out... |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 9-Apr-2004 2:17pm |
Do you really believe that it is possible to surgically alter one's gender? It seems to me that, given the fact that gender is determined by chromosomes on a cellular level, all that can be accomplished by surgery is genital mutilation. I know it isn't considered very PC to point this out.  |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 9-Apr-2004 6:13pm |
I think it's possible to surgically alter your body to fit your gender identity, anyway... beyond genital mutilation there's reconstructive surgery (I suppose really "constructive" surgery), so there's a bit more to it than just mutilation.
But you're right, you certainly can't change your DNA to XX from XY, and speaking very literally you can't actually change your gender. |
| darkshadowsseeker |
What ever makes that person happy is what is most important. What I think isn't. |
| moviesnob |
Do what you want. Doesn't bother me. |
| Irene007 | | posted 9-Apr-2004 10:04pm |
Fine, some are really women born in a male's body and there's nothing to do about it.
Why is it that men (well, many men) can become such lovely looking women and women rarely make good looking men? |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 9-Apr-2004 10:05pm |
Okay. Now, suppose I play devil's advocate:
A man, believing himself to be a gorilla, consults a medical practitioner and is told that he can have a surgical procedure which will bring his body in line with this belief.
Do you think that this would be good medical advice? |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 9-Apr-2004 10:16pm |
I can't really answer that question. It depends a lot on what the man's life and mental health would be like without the procedure. It also depends a lot on the effects of the procedure.
I don't think that's really comparable to the trans-gender example, though.
|
| romkey | | (reply to Irene007) posted 9-Apr-2004 10:17pm |
I've been attracted to k.d. lang once or twice... |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 9-Apr-2004 10:59pm |
Why isn't it comparable? |
| Irene007 | | (reply to romkey) posted 9-Apr-2004 11:08pm |
Yeah but I'll never mistake her for a man! But I've been fooled by some men!
I always thought her quite attractive in her own way too! |
| spidertea | | posted 10-Apr-2004 12:57am |
TO EACH IS OWN. |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 10-Apr-2004 7:59am |
I think it's not comparable for a couple of reasons:
1. transforming yourself into a gorilla likely means diminishing yourself mentally, and probably losing your ability to speak
2. as a gorilla you have no hope of living anywhere near normally in human society. as the opposite gender, you do have some chance. |
Iseult  | | posted 10-Apr-2004 10:43am |
I don't feel about them.
I can't think of a word at the moment that means the same thing as indifferent sans all the negative connotation. |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 10-Apr-2004 3:32pm |
But if someone were to believe themselves to be a gorilla, they wouldn't need to surgically alter their brain or speech abilities. They would simply act out the role. The desire is not to live normally in human society. The desire is to live as a gorilla. Let's suppose the person is independently wealthy and owns some land with an orchard...
Come on, cut me some slack here, I'm just trying to make an analogy.  |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 10-Apr-2004 5:35pm |
I'll cut you a whole banana tree! |
| danielle001 | | posted 11-Apr-2004 12:52am |
|
| danielle001 | | (reply to Amanda) posted 11-Apr-2004 12:54am |
but, B_L_fan, I have 9 different pairs of heels and only one pair of running shoes and they have 3 inch soles on them. |
| daniel1234 | | posted 11-Apr-2004 1:14am |
Of all the hot girls i have ever seen in my life, 2 of the hottest were born male, one of them is my brother. |
| Amanda |
Hey, it's your funeral. |
| danielle001 | | (reply to Amanda) posted 11-Apr-2004 2:26am |
B_L_fan, explain, How it would be ok for some other boy but not your son? |
| danielle001 | | (reply to Amanda) posted 11-Apr-2004 2:32am |
It's also something I have got to do, for myself. I cant go on pretending to be a boy. |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 11-Apr-2004 11:40am |
Okay then honestly, is this good medical advice? |
| Zang |
Do you think you could pretend to be a boy who likes to wear dresses? |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 12:51pm |
I couldn't answer that without knowing what constitutes good medical advice and without a lot more experience dealing with transgender medical issues.
Looking very narrowly at just direct medical issues, any surgery that's not necessary to correct a problem like a tumor or a broken bone would be unnecessary and not a good medical decision. But people are more than flesh and bones, and if having a penis is going to make someone miserable for the rest of their lives, why should they have to live that way? Isn't being able to do what you want with your body a most basic right? |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 11-Apr-2004 1:30pm |
Certainly, but our society seems to think otherwise. It isn't acceptable to inject heroin into your own body. It is acceptable to mutilate the genitals of infant males, but not infant females... |
| Amanda |
You should do whatever you feel is right. If you think that it's the right choice for you to live as a female, then who am I to try and stop you. I don't know you and don't care what you do. But, when it comes to my son, that's not going to happen. He can live as a female once I'm dead and gone. (Not that I ever see him wanting to!) I think that all parents want their children to be "normal". |
| Amanda | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 1:47pm |
Is there something you need to tell us? Are you really a gorilla trapped in a man's body? It's okay, Zang. We'll all still love you. Just let it all out! |
| Sage | | posted 11-Apr-2004 4:51pm |
Actually this is mone of my business.Is it any of yours? |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 6:40pm |
I don't think it's acceptable to mutilate anyone's genitals unless they give permission. There's so much propaganda about circumcision that I have no idea whether there's really a sound medical basis for it. I think it's fine for someone to decide to inject heroin into their own body, as long as they're willing to bear responsibility for the consequences. |
| JessicaWoman99 | | posted 11-Apr-2004 7:00pm |
I would like to add something else to this, and yes" boys can be girls if they are truly serious about this and I mean very serious? You see I am a transgendered female becoming more and more of a woman every day and I have been on hormone replacement therapy for almost 2 years as of right now and you will need counseling every week of the year and be on hormone replacement therapy for 1 year the hormones help you to become a woman and this is real expensive along with counseling and the surgery I just cannot afford? right now, I expect it to cost me between $30,000.00 to $100,000.00 real expensive and I did not mention electrolysis this is real expensive as well getting rid of facial hair and around my vagina any hair. Plus insurance will not pay for the surgery it comes out of my wallet, and yes you will develop breasts as in my case it takes a very long time 2 years I have to wear a mastectomy bra until my breasts get much bigger and you have to change out your closet from-male to-female clothing I did all this at the thrift stores and department stores, and as I said before church is real important number one your spiritual life belief in God. And there are families who will not support you and not want you to go through with this and they will not allow it as in my case growing up I lived a double life 2 different people and at the age of 48 here I am now a woman at last I have reached that point and all started at the age of 47 a year ago and I was in the emergency room and near death and I was planning my funeral? I was so sick over a year ago because I could never ever be who I am right now and I had to fight for my rights to be who I am because there where people in my life before who tried to stop me and tried to change my mind and it would have killed me if I had listened to them, but I took charge of my life and I decided right then and there to start my hormone therapy to become a woman and it has saved my life today? my blood pressure is where it should be 124 over 74 and before my sex change my blood pressure was always at 140 or 150 over 80 and my cholesterol was sky high it has come down as well and I have never ever gotten sick for the last 1 and half years I am healthy as I have ever been in my life this sex change has made all the difference in the world so boys can be girls if they are real serious about this they will need counseling every week hormone therapy every day of the week this is a very long process and the younger they are the better chances of becoming a girl and then a woman, the older they get their chances are worse? And you will get picked on and teased as well watch out for your neighbors they can be very prejudice towards you and biased you have to stand up for yourself, and fight back not let people harass you or intimidate you it will be very difficult for you. And being a woman in this world we watch out where ever we travel by ourselves check out our surroundings if something does not feel right I get out of there as fast as I can I trust my instincts. I check to make sure nobody is following me I look around the parking lot where ever I park my car. |
| smackiernan | | posted 11-Apr-2004 8:48pm |
I do not think it is a big deal really. I feel people who have an urge to be or live as the opposite sex are like this for a reason and are most likely genetically pre disposed to be this way. I know from my own experience growing up, I have always been attracted to the oppisite sex,and am happy being the gender I was born. It is because of this that I don't feel it is a choice or some weird psychological problem. I feel sexualality has a broad spectrum that people just do not want to except because then they would need to look at themselves in a far to scary light. Please exuse my spelling- I was born lazy! |
| Zang | | (reply to Amanda) posted 11-Apr-2004 9:09pm |
Very Good! |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 11-Apr-2004 9:13pm |
You're just way too evasive to get into a good debate with. But thanks for playing. You still get the lifetime supply of Jiffy-Pop! |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 9:36pm |
If chromosones decide who we are(boy or girl) then we would be able to prove that people who wish to be the opposite sex are genetically defective. And if it is more than just our chromosones then how can it be explained that two hetrosexual "normal" parents can give birth to a male with his chromosones all in place, that later feels as if he was born the wrong sex. We do not know everything their is to know about the human mind or body so to base your comments on chrom's is really silly. |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 9:56pm |
Oh by the way, there is a less than one percent diffrence between your genetic makeup and that lovely gorilla you are so fond of, so maybe your inner gorilla will some day shine through! Good Luck Coa Coa! Oh I'm sorry....Good Luck Zang! |
| Zang |
Your first statement sounds like a logical proposition, but it isn't. Essentially you are saying that because gender is determined by chromosomes, people who wish to be the opposite gender are genetically defective. Gender IS determined by chromosomes. That is a fact. Wishing to be the opposite gender is a state of mind. I would think that it is much more logical to propose that societal expectations of behavior based on gender stereotypes and delusions based on mass hysteria would provide a more rational explanation for these desires than defective genes. This would also easily explain your second predicament with the "normal parents". Certainly we don't know everything about the human mind & body. That goes without saying. However, it doesn't make my comments any sillier than yours; any more than the fact that my comments are more articulate than yours make your comments sillier.
I thought that it would be more to the point to engage in a dialogue about the pros and cons than to blandly agree with the supposition. I'm a bit of an iconoclast that way! |
| romkey | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 10:09pm |
Sorry, I'm not intentionally being evasive. I'm not a doctor and don't want to offer medical opinions. I'm happy to offer opinions based on my own observations and morals but they're necessarily limited and I want to recognize those limitations.
Thanks for the popcorn! |
| Zang | | (reply to romkey) posted 11-Apr-2004 10:14pm |
I'm not a doctor either, but that doesn't mean that the warning bells wouldn't go off if he started dancing around the office shaking a rattle when I went in for a check-up. People should have opinions about what constitutes good medical care. |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 11-Apr-2004 10:30pm |
Oh Zang forgive me but you are wrong and silly. Your reply only makes mine more logical. The only con to the issue would be people like yourself who enjoy pretending to now how everyone else should think and feel. I really don't see what the big deal is. Unless your in someone elses shoes, you can't tell them how they want to be or how they want to live. |
| Zang |
Did I do that? |
| they | | posted 12-Apr-2004 3:13am |
I say go for it |
| they | | posted 12-Apr-2004 3:25am |
It does concern me though that this is also something that your brother has done. I wonder what the odds are that two children from one family would have transgender issues.. That statement made me think this was much more psychological.. unless it is genetic? |
| FordGuy | | (reply to Zang) posted 12-Apr-2004 9:31am |
Sure - it's good medical advice. Now if someone truly believed they were a duck billed platypus and there was a surgical solution... I don't know. Your illustration proves that it is very difficult to draw a line. As usual, Zang, you've made me think.
The one thing that does bug me about SRS is that it seems it is becoming fashionable. I hope that people that are doing it are doing it for all the right reasons. It sure would be hard to go back. |
| Zang | | (reply to FordGuy) posted 12-Apr-2004 9:44am |
I'm glad I made someone think. That was my motive. As I said, there isn't much point in having a discussion if everyone blandly agrees. |
| bombill | | posted 12-Apr-2004 5:33pm |
I personally feel that they should spend a lot of time with a therapist and work it out. Clearly such a person has extreme gender issues, but at least living as a girl is doing something about it. I think it's be far worse to have all those feelings and just mourn your own existence. I really don't care, though whenever I meet such a person I always wish they would just accept who they are and leave the whole transsexual thing alone. I'm sure a transsexual would tell me that who they really are is the opposite sex, and I can empathize, but it wouldn't change my mind. |
| daxisn6 | | posted 13-Apr-2004 3:57am |
To each his own. |
| danielle001 | | (reply to mandy) posted 15-Apr-2004 1:05am |
you're not odd, mandy. I think it makes you cool! |
| danielle001 | | (reply to Amanda) posted 15-Apr-2004 1:07am |
> I don't know you and don't care what you do. But, when it
> comes to my son, that's not going to happen. He can live as a female
> once I'm dead and gone.
So IF he did come to you with this, you would disown him? |
| danielle001 | | (reply to Zang) posted 15-Apr-2004 1:08am |
> Do you think you could pretend to be a boy who likes to wear dresses?
no i couldn't. I want to be a complete female, and finally normal. |
| Zang |
But you do realise that isn't possible?
I'm not trying to piss on your parade. I'm not hostile to what you want to do. If that's what you really want to do, that's fine, I support that. But don't delude yourself. You will never be a "complete female". Every cell in your body contains genetic information designating your gender as male. The surgery does not provide a uterus, ovaries or even the glands which provide lubrication.
One thing that the surgery will certainly not do is make you "normal". No one is normal. Normal is not something worth striving for. It would be better to celebrate the individual that you are, whether that is a boy who likes to wear dresses or a post-operative transsexual. That choice is yours, but make sure that it is an informed choice. |
| iamdonte | | posted 17-Apr-2004 7:58pm |
I feel that as long as he is comfortable with his choices then my opinion one way or another shouldn't matter. |
| Dino | | posted 18-Apr-2004 10:31am |
I feel they should stop having so many surveys made about them.
That's what I think. |
| Amanda |
I never said that I'd disown him. I wouldn't be happy about it and would discourage that, but nothing could make me disown my child. Nothing! But, I really don't see me having to ever worry about that. |
| Biggles | | posted 19-Apr-2004 1:30pm |
I think that they're boys - children.... |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 21-Apr-2004 9:36pm |
Zang last I knew, science has not been able to find or label every single gene that is in the human body and if they have, could you please tell me where this information is I would love to finally be able to read and know this awesome information. |
| Zang |
For example:
"Every cell in your body contains within it the complete blueprint for creating every single cell in your entire body. A skin cell is a skin cell, yet within the nucleus of each skin cell are contained the genetic instructions for how to grow every other organ and tissue type in the body as well."
http://www.longevitymeme.org/articles/printarticle...
(One of many links which say essentially the same thing.) |
| Biggles |
Just to add to what Zang said - someone who is born male will always be genetically XY - that is, each of the cells in their body (except the sperm) will contain one X chromosome and one Y chromosome. Someone who is born female will have two copies of the X chromosome in each cell (except their eggs) and no Y chromosome at all. Surgery can't change what chromosomes you have. |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 24-Apr-2004 8:06pm |
Yes thank you for the review of high school bio. You have missed my point. As of right now we do not know if this condition is genetic or not. Your reply is meaningless to me. You keep talking about genes, then you reply to me that it is "society" could you please make up your mind and suppourt your claim with FACTS. It is a fact that people in this situation are sometimes born with an extra chrom. It is also a fact that science has not found every single gene that makes us who we are. |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Biggles) posted 24-Apr-2004 8:11pm |
And I must say thank you to Dr. Biggles too. I am aware of what sex chromosones are don't you worry your pretty little head. |
| Biggles |
Kleinfelter syndrome is something entirely different to regular transgenderism. All you and Zang seem to be disagreeing on is whether anyone can ever completely change sex - he's saying no and the science backs him up. What are you saying? |
| Zang |
I never claimed to have any particular position. I've just been tossing some ideas around for discussion. |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Biggles) posted 27-Apr-2004 7:38pm |
I am saying the science does not back Zang up. Simply due to the fact that science is a virgin when it comes to all things genetic. I have made that point over and over again. |
| Biggles |
You're saying that you do think that it is currently possible for someone to change from having XY chromosomes to having XX? |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 27-Apr-2004 7:40pm |
You do not discuss you rant! Usually when people discuss issues, they have a point they are trying to make. Are you sure your not Bill Clinton? |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Biggles) posted 27-Apr-2004 7:44pm |
No, I am saying science does not know what causes this condition. What do you not understand? |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Biggles) posted 27-Apr-2004 7:45pm |
Stop twisting my words it's not working. |
| Biggles |
Ah, it seems to me that wasn't what you were originally disagreeing on, nor what I was commenting on. But there we go... |
| Zang |
Rant? Hardly. I'm simply drawing out some ideas for discussion. If I have a point, it is merely to bring some topics to the table that may have been overlooked in what otherwise might be a bland list of comments like: "Do whatever you want, see if I care."
...and yes, I'm quite certain that I am not Bill Clinton. What a very strange thing to say! I'm afraid I'm not knowledgeable enough about him to even speculate where that particular comment connects to this. It strikes me as a non sequitur. |
| Zang | | (reply to Biggles) posted 28-Apr-2004 11:35am |
Do you get the feeling that we're being baited by a troll? |
| FordGuy | | (reply to Zang) posted 28-Apr-2004 12:39pm |
Ya think?  |
| Biggles | | (reply to Zang) posted 28-Apr-2004 1:18pm |
Yup - the goalposts seem to have moved. I'm confused by what he's disagreeing about! Never mind, if I close my eyes he won't be able to see me |
| uible | | posted 28-Apr-2004 3:54pm |
Other people's sexuality or gender orientation, or whatever is really none of my business. Well, unless I'm interested in sleeping with you or you are interested in sleeping with me.
In other words, I don't really care. |
| Zang | | (reply to Biggles) posted 28-Apr-2004 7:37pm |
Good idea! |
| Zang | | (reply to FordGuy) posted 28-Apr-2004 7:39pm |
Yup! |
| hopeinmusic | | posted 29-Apr-2004 6:33pm |
I just think it is gross... |
| anonymous |
They are sick. |
| danielle001 | | (reply to uible) posted 26-May-2004 10:49pm |
and if this person was inerested in you romantically??? |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Zang) posted 30-May-2004 10:58pm |
It seems your not knowledgeable about anything! |
| smackiernan | | (reply to Biggles) posted 30-May-2004 11:01pm |
You make no sense at all. |
