Sign On
Create Account

Last

TypeCreatedCategoryCreatorSortVotesHidesRating
single22-May-2003monkeeeeeeeIseult Survey Central Subscriber Silver Star Survey Creator Gold Qualifier by votes47957.5%

Advanced_Stats

Is this a paradox?

A man walks up to you and says "I always lie".

par·a·dox ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-dks)
n.
A seemingly contradictory statement that may nonetheless be true: the paradox that standing is more tiring than walking.
One exhibiting inexplicable or contradictory aspects: “The silence of midnight, to speak truly, though apparently a paradox, rung in my ears” (Mary Shelley).
An assertion that is essentially self-contradictory, though based on a valid deduction from acceptable premises.
A statement contrary to received opinion.


(from dictionary.com)



VotesAnswer
19Yes
12No (enlighten us!)
4Huh?

UserComment
mandy
posted 23-May-2003 6:48pm  
no, it's a conundrum
Enheduanna Survey Central Subscriber
posted 23-May-2003 7:16pm  
No. People say they're "always" doing things when they mean they do them frequently.
Pomeranian
posted 23-May-2003 7:45pm  
This is not a logical paradox. It is very similar to a famous paradox but there is a crucial difference.

Lets look first at the statement that I want to assert is a logical paradox: "I am telling a lie", or stated in another way, "This statement is false". If one declares that the statement "I am telling a lie" is true, it implies that I am in fact stating a falsehood, therefore it is false. However if I declare that the statement is false, it implies that I am in fact stating a truth, therefore it is true. Declaring that the statement is false or true puts me into a 'loop'; by analogy the assigning of a truth value is like a spinning coin which can never fall on to one side or another. This is a logical paradox and is in line with the third definition given in the explanation, "A [valid] assertion that is essentially self-contradictory ...". This is known as the Eubulides paradox.

The example stated is a riff on what is called the Epimenides paradox (so called for historical reasons even though it is not a logical paradox). Lets look at what happens when we assert that it is either true or false. If the statement "I am lying" is declared to be true, that would imply that I stated a falsehood and therefore it must be false. Even though the truth value 'flipped' like that, it is absolutely essential that the same 'flipping' should occur when the statement is false as well. Moreover, the 'flip' *must* occur in the true or the false case in order for it to be a (logical) paradox.

Now lets look at what happens when we declare that statement is false. That would mean (in a first order predicate logic context) that its 'opposite' or negation must be true. Lets change the wording into an equivalent statement, from "I always lie" to "Every statement I make is false". The negation of the statement "Every statement I make is false" is not "Every statement I make is true". The correct negation is "There exists at least one statement in the set of statements that I make that is true". It does not follow that declaring the statement false means that the given statement *must* be true or more importantly that this particular statement must be the 'at least one' true statement that I can make.

Despite that fact that this statement is not a paradox, it does have an interesting feature. If you like Martin Gardner's logic puzzles, then you might have seen this pop up. I am going to borrow his terms in order to make my point. Imagine an island that is populated only by Knights and Knaves. Knights always tell the truth (or can only say true statements) and Knaves always lie (or can only say false statements). On such an island, a Knight can never ever say "I always lie" because it would be false and they can't say false statements. A Knave can't say it either, because it would be true and they can't say true statements. Therefore on such an island this statement would be *impossible* to make by a native.

If you don't buy my reasoning it is probably because my explanation sucked. But if you search the web for "Liar's paradox", "Epimenides paradox" or "Eubulides paradox" you will probably find a better explanation.
LindaH Survey Central Gold Subscriber Gold Star Survey Creator Survey Qualifier This user is on the site NOW (7 seconds ago)
posted 23-May-2003 8:04pm  
If he sometimes lies, he is lying by telling you he always lies.
Pomeranian
posted 23-May-2003 8:13pm  
Wikipedia has an excellent article on the subject that is far more clear and succinct than my explanation:
http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epimenides_paradox
Dino
posted 23-May-2003 8:32pm  
Yes, I believe it is!
dora
posted 23-May-2003 8:33pm  
Yes.
Iseult Survey Central Subscriber Silver Star Survey Creator Gold Qualifier
(reply to Dino) posted 23-May-2003 9:08pm  
That's the right answer!
Zang
posted 23-May-2003 9:38pm  
I suppose it could be, I'd be more inclined to think it was hyperbole.
romkey Survey Central Gold Subscriber
posted 23-May-2003 9:41pm  
I really think that paradoxes are over-rated... they're mostly semantic artifacts...
LindaH Survey Central Gold Subscriber Gold Star Survey Creator Survey Qualifier This user is on the site NOW (7 seconds ago)
(reply to Iseult) posted 23-May-2003 10:23pm  
If he always lied, he wouldn't be saying it. I would guess that sometimes he lies, and sometimes he doesn't, and that when he approached you and spoke to you he lied. It's not a paradox if he sometimes lies, it's just another lie.
dab Survey Central Subscriber Gold Qualifier
posted 23-May-2003 10:24pm  
It's simply not true. No paradox.
Biggles Bronze Star Survey Creator Survey Qualifier
posted 24-May-2003 7:15am  
No, I don't believe so. The man may *sometimes* lie. In that case, he's lying *this* time by saying "I *always* lie".
Biggles Bronze Star Survey Creator Survey Qualifier
(reply to Iseult) posted 24-May-2003 7:17am  
I agree with joalis that it *isn't* a paradox as he may *sometimes* lie.
kaleb777 Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 24-May-2003 7:59am  
I think it is. If he does always lie, then by saying he does he must be lying and therefore telling the truth however anyone who tells the truth always cannot lie and would not say "I always lie".
kaleb777 Bronze Star Survey Creator
(reply to Zang) posted 24-May-2003 8:02am  
Isn't a hyperbole an exaggeration? If it isn't I've been using the term incorrectly.
Iseult Survey Central Subscriber Silver Star Survey Creator Gold Qualifier
(reply to Biggles) posted 24-May-2003 9:12am  
Yeah, he ONLY lies sometimes, and at that particular moment, he was lying that he always lies.
juliw
posted 24-May-2003 1:25pm  
yeah
ROCKMAN
posted 25-May-2003 8:15am  
No, I don't think so.
Zang
(reply to kaleb777) posted 25-May-2003 5:02pm  
Extravagant exaggeration, yes. I would tend to use it in such a way that it should be obvious. A slight exaggeration, that is believable isn't really hyperbole. It should stretch the bounds of credulity.
Jody
posted 26-May-2003 8:47am  
(From the I, Mudd episode of the original Star Trek)
"What?"
"He lied."
"Everything Harry tells you is a lie."
"Listen to this carefully, Norman. I am lying."
"You say you are lying, but if everything you say is a lie, then you are telling the truth, but ...
you cannot tell the truth because everything you say is a lie. You lie -- You tell the truth -- But you cannot -- Illogical! Illogical! Please explain. Only humans can explain their behavior. Please explain.
I am not programmed to respond in that area."
Kristal_Rose Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator Survey Qualifier
(reply to Jody) posted 27-May-2003 6:58am  
Wasn't that 'Nomad'?
Jody
(reply to Kristal_Rose) posted 27-May-2003 8:48am  
I, Mudd was the one with the androids who looked like one another ("Norman, coordinate!"). Nomad was the one where the floating robot device couldn't stand the thought that his creator (who was also, coincidentally, named Kirk) was human, and therefore flawed, so he had to be transported off the ship before he had a meltdown and went boom.
southernyankee Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 27-May-2003 1:22pm  
yes, but is it really possible to always lie in the first place.
southernyankee Bronze Star Survey Creator
posted 27-May-2003 1:27pm  
oh, never mind, i must not been thinking right now. off course its NOT a paradox. i wasnt thinking both ways. i think someone once said, always look on both sides before crossing the street.
Kristal_Rose Survey Central Subscriber Bronze Star Survey Creator Survey Qualifier
(reply to Jody) posted 27-May-2003 7:24pm  
Well it was something illogical, I remember that part.
icurok
posted 29-May-2003 1:10pm  
It's certainly not a logical paradox. It's merely an example of somebody exaggerating about how much they lie.
Although it is a statement that logically can never be true, the fact that the statement is false doesn't stop the man from being an occasional liar.
Nana831
posted 2-Jun-2003 2:41pm  
It is not a paradox. The man could not be telling the truth because he says he always lies. Hes lying right now but that doesnt mean he always lies. i hope i made this understandable...
btrswtbutterfly
posted 10-Jun-2003 5:31pm  
I guess so. Because he would either have to be lying when he said he always lies because he would be telling the truth.
Last
Advanced_Stats

If you'd like to vote and/or comment on this survey, please Sign On

 
Link this survey: http://surveycentral.org/survey/15148.html

Hits: 1 today (3 in the last 30 days)