Which of these conspiracy theories do you believe in, or think is a current possibility?

I couldn't check anything because I couldn't get away with saying I don't believe in conspiracies or theories, I just don't believe in any of the ones listed (and can't think of any others right now). Oh, by the way, you should have added the "We never actually visited the moon, it was all staged" theory!

Although I wouldn't put it in quite the same words, I picked ten of them based on having similar views on the same topics.

I don't really believe in Conspiracy Theories.

I think martial law is coming but I don't think there's any conspiracy about it. I think there are just lots of stupid people with power and lots of stupid people who'll let them get away with it.

just for fun i put these three items in from declassified government documents
The U.S. government purposefully poisoned Alaskan natives with radioactivity to study long term effects of radiation sickness
The U.S. government purposefully injected select black men with syphilis to study the disease
The U.S. government purposefully airdropped strains of flu over San Fransisco to study the effects of influenza and weather patterns as part of biological warfare studies

so, even though they sound like conspiracy theory, its american history

I don't believe in anything.

What about the theory that the US government had Marilyn Monroe killed as well as JFK and RFK?

sure, that's old news.

The U.S. and British governments experiment on their soldiers with drugs and psychological warfare tactics for purposes of research

This one's already been proven true. Remember the LSD tests on Air Force pilots?

The U.S. government purposefully injected select black men with syphilis to study the disease

Not only was this one true, but Bill Clinton, while President decried the project which took place in a town called Tuskeegee in the 1960s and apologized on behalf of the U.S. government. One of the few things he did that I geninunely liked.

I'm sure the government (or rather, elements within it, beucase if the WHOLE government was involved it could nver have been kept secret) was involved, but I don't think they were the masterminds of it. I think the originators of it were the nation's Billioanires and Bankers. They had the most to gain from JFK's death, even more so then the Cubans, Commies, FBI, or the Cosa Nostra (Mafia). In fact, they quite literally made a killing on Wall Street after the assassination.

Who knows? All of these are interesting theories!

The only one I've ever given serious thought to was that perhaps the UFO sightings that crop up everywhere are in fact due to new technology.

A lot of the drug and virus ones too. And maybe the Columbine shooters. I keep an open mind about UFO's. I don't think we've reached that stage.
I do think there may be clear evidence on the existence of life on other planets that is being kept from us - but I don't believe contact has been made.

Most of this I don't accept, but I'm fairly sure that at least 3 of these near the end are not theories, they are well-reported incidents that the government doesn't even deny.

Some of these are true. Others I give thought to at times like the UFO stuff.

right, as i posted above i put those in there fun fun because they are fact

-A.I.D.S. was created for biological warfare against homosexuals
-S.A.R.S. was created as a biological warfare agent
-The Columbine High School shooters did not commit suicide but were shot by police - Never heard of this one before but sounds credible
-Democracy is false, leaders are handpicked by a secret elite - EVERY democracy is false. Even in Switzerland, with their cantors, where you vote for everything, do think they will really let them decide anything that's import. Democracy is a big demagogue, idealistic bullcrap. The real political system we live in is oligarchy. That's how it was and that is how it will always going to be.
-The American war on drugs only serves to 'corner the market' for the real drug dealers (possibly the American government itself)
-America's war against Iraq serves an ulterior motive for the elite - America buys oil from the Middle East and then they have money to buy weapons from the America which they use for war. And why is there a war? Because in war some people profit.
-The U.S. and British governments experiment on their soldiers with drugs and psychological warfare tactics for purposes of research
-The U.S. government purposefully poisoned Alaskan natives with radioactivity to study long term effects of radiation sickness

Great survey. Loved it

I don't believe in conspiracies. I do, however, believe that the war in Iraq is serving the ulterior motives of a certain elite, namely the executives at Halliburton. I don't think it's a conspiracy, though. I also think Bush and Cheney wanted it as a sort of grudge match, which is also a kind of ulterior motive.

Yeah, I was glad when I saw your comment... I was onto you!

well by definition conspiracy means a motive known only to a small few.

thanks, there is no 'theory' that the cops killed the columbine shooters, i just 'felt' it from the start. just like waco, i watched the whole thing unfold on tv. when the waco compound started to burn and the reporters were saying immediately the davidians started the fire themselves i knew it was a total bullcrap statement. it took years for that truth to come out, however. so, that's another thing (waco) thats on this list that is not really theory, but i guess most folks don't know that. stuff like that gets underreported.

i sometimes wonder about madcow too.

I think it's transparently obvious that they're in it for the money; it's not something that's really a secret, which is why I wouldn't say it's a conspiracy. I think conspiracies require secrecy. Halliburton having a bottom line is common knowledge. Just because most people don't think about it too much doesn't make it a conspiracy.

I guess I believe that there are also certain things that the government keeps secret beyond basic security issues, but I don't think they're usually conspiracies. The world is too full of blabber-mouths for most conspiracies to actually stay that way in the long run. If most of these were true, someone would have blown the whistle by now.

AIDS created as biological warfare against homosexuals is ridiculous. AIDS is a disease not a disease-causing agent so couldn't be "created". But even if we assume this means HIV, the virus predates our knowledge of genetics so it simply couldn't be man-made.

Hepatitis is a silly one as well. Why would the government want to give a long-term disease to drug users that's going to cost them more than than the drug use?

SARS as a biological warfare agent strikes me as pretty silly too. It's *possible* but a natural origin for it is far more likely.

Actually, virtually all of these are downright ridiculous. However, some may have some truth in them:

The majority of sightings of "UFOs" probably *are* government technology, secret or not.

British soldiers certainly have been experimented on - a lot of the time the soldiers involved were volunteers, but they didn't always know exactly what they were volunteering for.

I could believe that Alaskan natives were exposed to radiation and black men given syphilis for research purposes - but only if this was alleged to have happened over 40 years ago. I don't believe that would happen now.

Do you have a link to somewhere I could read about the declassified document relating to the release of the flu? I just can't imagine why they would feel they had to do it.

ill try to dig it up, though i read it in the paper years ago. you don't know why they would do it? that's much less horrible than letting thousands of natives die of radiation poisoning just to study the effects.

as far as our knowledge of genetics, i believe our governments' knowledge of all science is many many years ahead of what the 'public' scientific community is aware of.

Because of my previous career work in aerospace and classified military work, I know more than the average person about UFO's and the subject of it being government built devices. Can't talk about it though....

You're right about that. I think there are many many things that others have instigated and the US government has covered up. I think it would scare the pants off most of us if we knew only half of it.

if you were scared to talk about it then you wouldnt have brought it up...

Or maybe it isnt true

It has nothing to do with being scared. You don't know me so no risk of revealing anything saying I know about those things. Can't say anything because there are others who would have ways of tracking it. As in the subject of revealing classified information, not being scared.

> just for fun i put these three items in from declassified government
> documents
> The U.S. government purposefully poisoned Alaskan natives with radioactivity
> to study long term effects of radiation sickness
> The U.S. government purposefully injected select black men with syphilis
> to study the disease
> The U.S. government purposefully airdropped strains of flu over San
> Fransisco to study the effects of influenza and weather patterns as
> part of biological warfare studies
>
> so, even though they sound like conspiracy theory, its american history


I didn't pick those even though they sounded real, I knew some of these things went on in the past but I just picked what I thought was current.

I didn't mean *how* I meant *why*. Why they would feel it was necessary to specially release the virus, when I would have thought they could just observe a "natural" epidemic. Releasing over San Francisco isn't really any more controlled than observing an outbreak in Kuala Lumpa say...

As far as the government's knowledge of science being far in advance of the public scientific community, I find that *very* hard to believe. Somewhat in advance when it comes to technology for fighting wars, absolutely - but basic genetics? No way. The manpower that would require is immense - thousands, often hundreds of thousands of scientists are involved in most significant scientific breakthroughs - for the government to stay that far ahead of modern public science, they would have to have millions of scientists tucked away, all of whom can absolutey keep a secret. And for some reason, the government aren't interested in employing some of the top thinkers of our day, many of which hold positions in universities on very poor pay. Of course, that *could* just be their cover....but that's just getting desperate.

i know what you meant. you are under the illusion the american government (in any past administration this century) cares about the well being of its citizens.

i'd still like to hear it. you can email me if you want
heyzeus@netnet.net

you may be right, but i gaurantee if they COULD have made hiv, they would have. thats just the nature of the keepers of power.

"i know what you meant. you are under the illusion the american government (in any past administration this century) cares about the well being of its citizens."

No that's not what I meant at all - I was talking about why on earth anyone would feel releasing flu over a city would have any scientific merit whatsoever. If you want to observe a flu outbreak and see how the weather affects it, there are plenty of natural flu outbreaks to observe, and that way you don't have to pay the added cost of treating the people who get sick in your health system. It's just a waste of money - and why would they do that?

If they could have made HIV they would have because it's in their nature? Why? What purpose does it serve?

to research how disease is spread if you purposefuly drop it over a city!
what purpose does hiv serve?
it kills people!
it is any governments foremost job to keep itself in power. for most governments this entails the hoarding of secrets and weaponry, and most importantly weaponry that others do not have. my government and yours spend plenty of time and money researching new ways to kill people, whether they use it or not.
and for the purely theoretical side of it, hiv serves to deplete all population, which is a general root of most of these theories.
why? well, you have to read a couple books on the subject. try 'behold a pale horse' by william cooper.

Right - I thought the idea was that it was dropped over the city to see how weather patterns affected it?

right, same thing. how does the weather make it spread? how many people can you get sick using airplanes, etc. standard stuff.

But the weather pattern stuff is easily observable from natural outbreaks.

I don't know, by the time I read about the Davidians, it was a long time after it happened. Nonetheless, I cannot recall whetehr the book stated the police set it on fire or they did it themselves.

Uhh, I already said I am not free to discuss these things.

The Waco compound was purposefully burned down by the F.B.I or A.T.F. I've seen video of this happening. It also showed the authorities shooting people running out of the burning building. I don't think anyone thinks this is a conspiracy theory any more.

natural outbreaks don't get dropped from the sky! if the words weather pattern are what is bothering you, then forget the 'weather pattern', i think you are missing the point, anyway.

it came out in the news awhile back, but i cant remember if it was just new evidence or if someone admitted to it.

you'd be suprised how many people didnt hear any reports of wrongdoing by the atf or fbi. thats just the media. for instance i watch the bbc news as often as american, and 2 stories about the same thing are often quite different. normaly the american media cuts out 'important' stories or cuts them short so there is more time to talk about the oscars, or the latest movie star scandal or whatever.

ive thought about and considered almost every single one of these theories

i was just reading this little link :
https://secure9.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/de...

I guess a few of them are possible. I thought a few like the one about black men was fact. Wasn't that the Tuskeegee experiment? I don't profess to know much about conspiracies. I figure there are definitely conspiracies among some of the elite, but I don't think they're all in cahoots. Greedy people don't share power very well. Don't really buy into aliens, either.
I had never heard about the intentional global warming. Kinda interesting.

It was the weather patterns element that interested me. That's what made it seem like a false story.

Argh...so many choices...if "contrails" (I think that's what I mean) are on there, then that one.

the wording was mine, i read the story years ago in the milwaukee journal sentinal. i dont remember word for word how they described the study, so i summed up the premise of it in this survey. i can't dig up a link for the thing about the alaskan natives either, a story i read about the same time. i cant say these are facts just because the media reported them as declassified documents, but i can tell you far a fact they were reported.

no i forgot that one.
got to admit i never completely understood the theory behind contrails, anyway.

there are varied theories behind intentional global warming. some have to with with alien theories (and temperature or atmospheres they supposedly like) and the more plausible idea of an impending ice age. william cooper wrote an interesting prediction in his book 'behold a pale horse'
he said that in they year 2000 they would be crashing a space probe (i cant remember, but he may have said voyager) into jupiter, with intent to use its plutonium batteries to ignite a chain reaction, turning jupiter into a mini sun, thus averting an ice age on earth. sounded crazy to me. but guess what, a few months ago, i was watching cnn, and a story popped up about how they had to crash the space probe galileo into jupiter (and were hoping it wouldnt cause some kind of chain reaction with its plutonium batteries).
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=12583
they did it, but nothing seemed to happen.
here's more info about cooper and jupiter
http://www.disinfo.com/site/printarticle610.html

and more...
http://www.iceagenow.com/

Okay, so I got it right

OK - sorry to be difficult

no problem. i can be difficult to, as you probably know.

yeah but whats the theory, do you know it?

Well, I think that some UFO's ("Unidentified Flying Objects") are government technologies such as satellites or aircraft. There is nothing weird about that. Also, I thought the syphilis thing did happen - am I wrong?

it did, as did the options above and below it (to the best of my knowledge)

Experimental chemical agents are contained in these lines of "exhaust", meant to be exposed to groups of people in a given geographic location. I think that's the basic idea. Anyone have anything else on this?

from what i remember hearing about it, there are not supposed to be vapor trails, due to the way they build engines now, so if you see them, somethings up. i dont have any info to back this up and i dont know much about it. i do know, you dont usualy see contrails in my part of the country, but go out west....bam! they criss-cross the skies on certain days. kristal rose could tell us about this, i bet.

Yeah, what you say rings true.....let's see if K.R. chimes in, here.
I'm in the east, too! Where are you? I'm in Delaware.

north wisconsin. i almost never see contrails, but there are airports around. even in milwaukee i didnt see hardly any.

Hmmm, scary. I see A LOT!!!

First off, as I rise in the ranks of organizations that people suspect of being sources of conspiracy, I find that they are innocent average citizens with open membership who suspect that someone else must be the source of conspiracy.

In spite of this, the routine semi-public activities of many agencies and individuals has not been in the public interest, although their motives were probably more insensitive and opportunistic than resembling some grand-thinking conspiracy.

that said, I am still given to bouts of paranoia usually supported by facts or personal experiences. These experiences, from a mystical standpoint, are as much, if not more, the personal karmic blame of the individual for residing in that universe experience as they are the fault of external forces within a common universe. My takes on these examples will be followed by my own abundant theories to whatever extent time and memory permit.

The Illuminati control of the western world
- I've been a member of a group not unlike the Masons, with goals of changing the world. Although they have quirky ideas on evolution and such, they turn out to have absolutely political infrastructure, and rather concentrate entirely on group meditation and the study of supernatural theological theory in the abstract. There worldy affairs are generally entirely independent of each other except for activities like rock climbing, concerts picnics. I did however find that meditating with the purpose of changing the world put me in the circumstance of co-incidentally running into other, unrelated powerful people who wanted my assistance on world-changing projects. Thus I would say my 'Illuminati' like experience was more of a 'conspiracy of angels'. It wouldn't surprise me to find that a powerful dark group exists mirroring our group of light, and yet still, if they operated like us, then you could tape-record every every member had, and still find no traces of conspiracy.

A.I.D.S. was created for biological warfare against homosexuals
- AIDS came into existence after the launch of a multi-billion dollar bio-tech industry. The engineering goal of this industry is to manage biological life on a micro-machine level. The ultimate laboratory tool to carry out such work would be a self-replicating virus with the capability of RNA cloning of other DNA, which it turns out, AIDS was the first popular example of. Whethar nature just co-incidentally (a very important word to understand in mysticism) created what the labs were probably trying to create, or it was actually created in a lab, I don't know.
The other important thing to see about diseases is that they naturally evolve technically just as every other conceptual system of life does, for instance, conspiracy theorizing. This I believe is to perputuate the continuing contrast of experience on earth. Things like the black plague will always exist. Even if our bodies became pure nano-technology capable of instantly morphing as exists in cartoons and sci-fi movies, just as viruses appear in computers, there will be new viruses affecting nano-life. This may evolve naturally or be manufactured, but you can be as certain it will insist, as we are that new planets will often have volcanos.

Hepatitis was created for biological warfare against drug users
S.A.R.S. was created as a biological warfare agent
- Possibly. Since the days of giving cholera infected blankets to native tribes, and possibly all through the ages of human culture, viruses have been used as agents of war. Probably every conceivable means of killing a person imaginable is being explored in a lab somewhere, and some of these experiments are probably successful. It's long been official public knowledge that in the past, the US has intentionally spread diseases to study propogation vectors. They say of course that was a thing of the past, but I'm sure that 20 years from now, they will be making public things they have done now, and saying that such activity is all in the past.

The governments of the world have been in secret talks with aliens for some time now, possibly trading technology for who knows what
- In meditation, I met Horus travelling on a white sphere of light that transcended time and space, and I have gone on some stellar astral travels myself. I had also designed back then several principles of nanotechnology and wave physics which could create a teleporter capable of sending people as far as light could reach. I've also considered the possibilities that stories of the ben-ben stone beneath the library of the phoenix, arriving as a crystal seed shooting-star to originally terra-form our planet like the 'Genesis Project' have some truth, especially since early kaballistic writings describe fairly accurately nuclear configuration propagation principles of terra-forming golums which we are only now rediscovering in modern science. I've also considered that those three pyramids which once had white parabolic surfaces, were used for interstellar signalling purposes. Yet in spite of all this, the universe is made of galaxies like grains of sand at the beach, and humanity has only been here but the briefest few millenia, so the odds of another star interacting with us in this age are phenomenally remote. It would pretty much have to be a civilsation or entity that had broken the barriers of time and space, and one would have to wonder why they would bother with us any more than we would bother with an ant pile 400 kilometers off of the nearset road in the Sudan, unless they also had eternal life-time to spare, and could also be many places at once or go back in time, in which case, we're not really talking about aliens visiting so much as Deities. Do I believe in Deities visiting us? Yes I do. I've visited with a few already.

U.F.O.s are government technology
- If an object is unidentified and foreign, it was probably made by the government. I once saw a light hovering off-shore, then suddenly travel about 7 miles in 4 seconds (with a uniform velocity, no accellerating or decellerating), and hover again. I have no idea what it was, but I'm guessing it was a military device.

The Waco compound was purposefully burned down by the F.B.I or A.T.F.
- Yep. I didn't realise this was even a question.

The Columbine High School shooters did not commit suicide but were shot by police
- No.
To avoid an overpopulation crisis this century the U.S. government and some others are engaged in selective genocide (I.E. poisoning of the public through food, water, etc. and biological/psychological warfare against 'undesirables')
- Not intentionally. But the poor live on junk food and a terrible water supply. cigarettes may be a conspiracy like that though.

Democracy is false, leaders are handpicked by a secret elite
- That's not even a secret, though most of the public is ignorant. The super delegates of our electoral college can decide publicly who they will vote for even before the election is held. To top that off, the stuff which really affects us, technology development, anti-trust law, assistance programs, etc. etc. is all run by people who weren't even elected, and are usually members of the very same corporations that the public would hope that these agencies, boards, and cabinets are protecting the public from.

Global warming is being created on purpose (there are a number of reasons behind this theory, one of which is an impending ice age)
- No. People may be ignorant and selfish and unorganized with low motives, but no one with power has a motive to do that.

The American war on drugs only serves to 'corner the market' for the real drug dealers (possibly the American government itself)
- Most of our leaders own large shares of the pharmaceutical indunstry, just as most of congress once was once given large shares of the rail-road industry before that became a national goal. I often see many shows and commercials on tv which seem to be subliminal advertising for street drugs, especially in conjunction with military recruitment.

America's war against Iraq serves an ulterior motive for the elite
- What's ulterior about it? It's pretty blatant that we have set up our nations industries, like Bechtel and Haliburton to profit from both it's construction, it's rebuilding, and it's involvement in american trade. Anyone who believed we were simply there as liberators is out of their mind. We haven't had that motive in a war since WWII. I think those responsible knew they were being international bullies, yet felt that bullying was reasonabl and proper anyhow.

R.F.I.D. tracking devices have been implanted in money and products for years, tracking and recording consumers' buying and living habits
- Isnt' that obvious? If you get on the mailing lists of high-tech software, optics, electronics, the DoD, and business services, you'll find they offer this technology to gov't and business as openly as Visa offers credit cards.

America 'created' Al Qaeda to foment war in the Middle East, and it backfired
- No, but I feel the mideast would have left us alone if we had left it alone. I think the answer there is totally multilateral un/nato defense of any nation against any other nation which is an agressor, whether it be Iraq, Iran, Israel, Pakistan, whatever. Even better would be requiring all nations to be inspected for WMD's by the UN, and anyone who wanted them, would have them administrated by the UN too. Iraq won't go to war with Iran if both of their their munitions are run by UN council.

The high places in governments of the world are populated by aliens
- No.
The World Trade Centers were destroyed by the American government, to create a war
- That one seems like quite a possibilty to me. If Haliburton and Bechtel build it's replacement, I'll be convinced. There were metaphysical counter-parts to this event which I won't go into at the moment, which suggest it was a timely part of the cosmic tv show.
The Oklahoma City bombing was orchestrated by the U.S. government
- No, it was done by people against the government which had public interest in mind, but were willing to destroy the people they wanted to save. The people in ongoing battle with them conceeded that the message had intelligent virtue.

Martial law is coming to America and the west
- I hope not, but already half of the bill of rights we claim to be protecting is becoming like historical fiction. In contrast to the 30's, we have already become quite a lot like the books 'brave new world', and '1984', in a way which would have horrified adults back then, and yet, as 1984 suggests, the people would neither know nor care that things had ever been better.

The U.S. and British governments experiment on their soldiers with drugs and psychological warfare tactics for purposes of research
- Yep. This has been admitted to.

The U.S. government purposefully poisoned Alaskan natives with radioactivity to study long term effects of radiation sickness
- I havent heard specifically of that one, but we have admitted to having done it in general back in the 50's.

The U.S. government purposefully injected select black men with syphilis to study the disease
- I doubt it.

The U.S. government purposefully airdropped strains of flu over San Fransisco to study the effects of influenza and weather patterns as part of biological warfare studies
- Yep.

Name your theory!
- The biggest issues are happening in the private sector, and pertain to media manipulation, and artificially intelligent grand-scale surveillance. The movie 'Enemy of the State' starts off by saying 'everything you have heard of is 20 years obsolete', well, all the technology exposed in that movie was in itself, 20 years obsolete. We live in age where people are practically encouraged to make their drug-deals using camera cell-phones. No one even owns communication tools anymore like manual typewriters and mimeograph machines which couldn't be shut off on a membership basis the moment there was a hint of revolution.
Good internet software could deduce when you go to the restroom, how actively engaged you are in parts of a televison show, and by studying the relative patterns of your mouse behavior, even get a feel for your general mood and emotional reaction to things. I once turned on my computer at the stroke of midnight, opened two apps, typed a couple of sentences, and shut them, then did a search for which files had been modified that day - 120 of them! and that's not even the info which is being exchanged over the internet. Well, I should stop now, because I can site examples like this for days straight.

I don't belive in conspiracies
I don't believe in theories
- Conspiracy thinking is a hazard, because we create the events which happen in our personal universes, including the manifesting of our darkest fears. Better to play a guitar at the beach.

I didn't read to figure out if ever sorted out the flu issue, but as I imagine, it was about such: When, (especially back then) an outbreak occurs, it's exact point of origin is unknown. Further, if you realase your own disease, you can launch a disease with specific markers, and not have to worry about whethar the manifestions you are recording are from some prior or neighboring outbreak. Also, with point of origin monitoring, you have both the time, geographical, and social circle propagation data to see the big picture in how germ warfare could be used within any environment froma building to a nation, and what the hopes of diminishing propagation are before target saturation constraint boundaries are surpassed. Another thing you have to understand about the motive of any government agency, is that they don't profit by cutting research costs, rather, the more redundant project activity they can get sponsored, the better off that agency is.

Hey, do you have project picked out for your statistics class? Some 15 years ago I invented what I call 'Combinatorial math', it's like a calculus of sumnatorials (like factorials, only 4+! = 4+3+2+1). It develops lots of fascinating recurring predictable patterns like fibbonacci numbers. It's application is closed systems, like how many ways are there to hold down 4 keys on a 101-key keyboard, or recombinant dna mating. I can write you a paper on the subject if you could use it your class. My 10 year old son was able to understand it, but it could be a novelty in the academic world, just like my proof of Fermat's Last Theorm or my strategy for non-approximal n-section of n-dimensinal geometry (ie exactly 7-secting a line or circle without measurement or iterative use of dividers).

They may have made engines more efficient, such that they don't 'smoke', but the product of any combustion of a hydrocarbon (just about any fuel) and oxygen will be water, or given the heat and vapor pressure up there, a trail of steam. The simplest case is the electrolysis of water, H2O, which when seperated by electricity, creates the exact proportions of hydrogen and oxygen gasses for perfect combustion, with a clean exhaust consisting of nothing but water, thus making it ideal as an energy storage of regenerative braking in hybrid vehicles, as I independently invented back in 1996. I have just bought a new tangerine cannondale tandem bicycle to finally produce such, in the form of an electric/hydrogen/steam-ped driving the rear crank-set.

I live near LAX airpert, and the skys here usually are criss-crossed with contrails, especially over the ocean, where take-offs are the predominant portion of the flight ptterns, and the vapor pressure is naturally higher, like the morning fog over a lake.

I feel now like Mr.Whoopee in the cartoon 'Tennessee Tuxedo'.

Luckily for me, I don't have to do a project for Stats!

havent seen that cartoon. were you aware of conspiracy theories surrounding contrails?
i figured there would be a lot around LAX, but i always wondered why there arent any around milwaukee's big airport.
thanks for answering!

as far as illuminati, i have never made decisions as to whether i really believe in a sinister underground control of our planet, it occured to me recently this is a clever excuse for the brain to latch on to to sum up the fact that mankind must be crazy to 'run the world' in the fashion it does, so there must be somebody else to blame, right? but perhaps, mankind is crazy, collectively, or just selfish. your meditations remind me of both aliester crowley (who also meditated with horus, horus directly wrote some of his books) and tim leary, who through some similar meditations came up with his starseed theory which is a huge basis for most of today's new age works. the rainbow groups gather for the specific purpose of meditation to change the world, i have taken part. living in cali, i am sure you know some rainbow folks.
as far as the notion of visits by beings having broken the time/space issue, why would they be here? because in time, we may be/do something important. i still think our planet is part of a grand experiment, and a great cosmic meeting place of sorts. while the whole universe is a grand experiment, something important is going on here on earth. who knows, we may even be a big tv show, survivor planet, or something.
i think most conspiracy theories spring from a general subconsious knowledge that something big is going on that nobody knows about. the search for what this feeling springs from produces the fruits of paranoid theory. we know something's up but we don't know what. but i guarantee life is nowhere near as simply and straightforward as it seems.

I didn't know that about Crowley, No wonder he also visited me at my friends house whom was big on studying him, now that I think of it, back when I was transcribing and meditating upon kaballisitic talismans of his at her place.
I enjoy rainbow types, but rainbow folk are more likely to be in no. calif., santa cruz, berkeley, humboldt, not LA.
Yeah, mystic awareness familiarizes people with deducing patterns of something going on, so if one gets paranoid, they are likely to conjure conspiracy theories. I find though that no one seems to hve any control, and I think some people would be more comfortable with a sinister underground than find we only have people like ourselves to blame for how the earth turns out.
Tennessee Tuxedo who hung out with a Walrus. After Mr. Whoopee would explain on the blackboard something like how hot air balloons work, they would make a failed escape attempt from the zoo; and Mr. Peabody, a dog not terribly unlike Dilbert, would give Sherman lessons on history then send him there with his time machine. With Atom Ant, Boris and Natascha, etc. there were plenty of cartoons trying to train rocket engineers to defend us from commies during the cold war. I don't think it ws a conpiracy anymore than if you were to write environmental concerns into a cartoon, and sell it to broadcast studios as being eduactional. But that was then. Now, writers are indeed paid to tie shows into products and public messages.
There are three main views of creation, the india view (my view), as drama, where God becomes matter and perosae for the sake of experience, the far east view, as organism, and the western view, as created mechanism, whethar that be from God through genesis or as particle mass following darwinian evolutionary principles. Your suggestions come from a western view, as they do in 'Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy'. The india view can get as terribly complex as the western view, but at it's root remains always most simple, that this is a dream of God, which fractals out into mirrors of contrasts, so that experience gets infinitely more complex. Westereners look for the edge of the universe, and the building blocks of life, neutrons or mesons. In the God unfolding on the spot view, the universe has no bounds in any direction, scientists are likely to find dingons and zoogons within mesons, and zorps and quags within dingons, eternally, as provides diversity of experience.
Something like a conspiracy of saints started off my spiritual awakening, as I discovered hindu wisdom in popular music, and suspected a kabal of hindu saints encompassing the whole media industry; but eventually I found animals, cars, and every word on tv was in on the conspiracy to such extent that they weren't merely delivering a generic message, but ones which directly pertained to any moments immediate thought of mine. Basically, all of creation I had lived in for 25 years had been a hoax, and really, there was nothing surrounding me but God, the ultimate conspiracy source. If you look for complex answers, it will always get more complex. If you look for simple answers, it will always get simpler.

oh, ok i know that cartoon now!
personaly, i tend towards zen buddhism in my beliefs, and from that i know everything will be ok.
but again, i try not to believe anything at all, and in taking a road to either religion or science, you are likely to come upon an 'end' to the road where everybody is standing around saying "this is it! this is the answer!"
the answer is to keep walking...

aliester crowley began speaking with horus after his wife would go into trances and horus would speak through her. he tooks dictation from this being and began to write the book of the law, and later though he initialy hated this idea, began communicating with horus himself to finish the book, and many more later. he learned it was horus as his wife bagan drawing pictures of the diety-symbol while in trance.

the cali rainbow folks are always the craziest at a gathering, they usualy have a 'naked camp' where the drums never stop.

I have walked many diverse paths until my mystical neighbors said 'welcome home', but opted each time for the continued diversity of experience of keeping walking.

I would see a huge eye on the wall watching us meditate. This was different than the vision in medition with the lower body of a lion.

I visited one sort of shambala in meditation where the folks on the streets had the diverity of appearnace as Ganesh and Siva. I think perhaps I'd be something /like one of those Dr. Seuss birds with 40' tails, and eyes on many tentacles in such a realm.

I'm not quite as earthy as nude drummers. I live more mentally/astrally than physically.

I have walked many diverse paths until my mystical neighbors said 'welcome home'
thats funny i wonder if you meant that as a direct reference to the rainbow folks, or didn't realize it.
'welcome home' is how you are greeted upon entering a gathering.

It was a direct quote in many qualitatively different faiths, but they all had the quality of being a telepathic community.

<i>The U.S. government purposefully injected select black men with syphilis to study the disease
- I doubt it. </i>

Uh, actually this one happened.

Cool links! Thanks! It's kinda funny, scientists aren't debating whether or not a catastrophic change is about to happen, but which event will happen first. There are very alarming things currently happening in the environment, but it's my hope that a solution will be found. Humans tend to only solve problems when they absolutely have to, though we work well under pressure.

What gets to me is that Earth has been around for billions of years, and we've managed to almost destroy it in the past two centuries. Sure, I guess the ice age would come all the same, but still, so many of these apocalyptic scenarios are man made.

Yeh well, you never can tell about these things. I'm not surprised by anything, it just seemed like one of the least liklier.

i find this page to be the best for alternative or underreported media
http://www.unknowncountry.com/
there is always something good on there

There has been whole documentaries made about Waco showing footage of it all. Even if Americans haven't seen them I don't see how they can be isolated from the information. MAybe Americans don't want to believe it.

thats right. lots of americans have total faith in their govt. and won't hear otherwise.

Yep, half our nation has a faith that our leaders are democratically elected and therefore they and their entire administrations are serving truth, justice, and the american way. They would have to witness Waco in person to believe it. On the other side of the coin, we have those who don't trust or believe anything, and are unwilling t concede that sometimes even the opposition makes sensible rulings on behalf of the public interest. We have a lot of moderates, but I think that really means oblivious. Those who are actively involved tend not to judge on explicit merits, but make broad presumptions based on group identity. Ideology reigns over objectivity here, and those winning offices do so because they've capitalized upon that short-coming of the general public. I bet though that the inverse is true too, that their are people getting their frequent objective news from c-span, yet feel their vote is futile against the ideologically generalist manipulated election campaigns.

The American war on drugs only serves to 'corner the market' for the real drug dealers (possibly the American government itself)

America's war against Iraq serves an ulterior motive for the elite (though that's half truth...it's complicated).



The U.S. and British governments experiment on their soldiers with drugs and psychological warfare tactics for purposes of research


I don't believe in most conspiracy theories . These things make sense.

Are there many "swinging voters" in the US or are people lifelong devotees of a political party and will vote for them no matter what they do?

My theory is that the liberals secretly hope America will turn communist.

I'm not sure, but I don't think there are many swing voters at all. Now that you bring that up, I find it curious that parties don't aim their campaigns at first time voters.

I don't believe Waco was done purposefully burned down, but when I watched this unfold as many did, something was wrong. I just feel if they (FBI/ATF) had waited them out longer, it would have never happened.

I do believe America's war in Iraq has those ulterior motives for the elite, namely Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown and Root.
I have a feeling martial law will be coming to America and the west--just a feeling.

I do believe that the US government experimented on their soldiers with drugs and psychological warfare tactics for purposes of research--remember the experimentation with LSD in the 50's and 60's?

I know the US government purposefully injected select black men with syphilis to study disease. I believe it was done in Mississippi or Alabama. This is a known fact.

Now I am sad----

Here the leftist parties infest universities. I think they are trying to get at the 18yo first timers.

They do that here too. As for the 18 year olds, I have a theory. A lot of teens tend to be a little selfish, with an attitude "What's in it for me? Me me me." Anyway they go off to college with this attitude: It's time to grow up, mature, and think about other people. The problem is, they do a complete 180 and end up with all this sympathy for grown adults who are still in the "me" mindset, wanting something for nothing.

I think the me,me,me wanting something for nothing comes from the left.

There's 2 branches of it though. The folks who want something for nothing, and the folks that want to enable people who want something for nothing.

It all depends on the university here. Choosing political climate is part of selecting a college, and I don't know that the numbers weigh heavier on one side any more than they do for the states populaces themselves.

Here it's different. The laft control all campusses unfortunately. Often they are extreme. One of my sociology lecturers was a radical feminist. She made us read rubbish from a colleague who made statements like - the only reason men cry at the funerals of their wives is because they have lost a slave and have to find another. Are you starting to understand why I hate the left so much?