Do you think the Ten Commandments should be posted in public schools?

I ticked off lots of them, but the one that best reflected my sentiment was: "I am okay with posting the Ten Commandments, as long as other religious beliefs were represented as well".

Yes, not because of religion just because it's sound advice. All religions (except for a few - OK! for one) teach basically the same things; be good! It's ok to remind us of that from time to time. It would probably cause much distress though, because of the varying religions in public schools. The question should have been put forth for Christian schools...

Yeah! That's what I meant with only one reply and many words in my comment!

You know what they say; "The empty can makes the most noise."

Not all of the ten commandments are things the average parent teaches their kids. Some of them are OK, but to have other things mixed in as though they are equally important might confuse kids who's parents aren't religious. (Sabbath day? What's that? Graven images? What are those?)

I don't believe in posting any laws or guidelines anywhere unless there is no other way that a person could be aware of them.
Parents should be responsible for explaining this sort of thing to their kids. In any wise nurturing environment the golden rule should be common sense ingrained in the kids.

"All religions (except for a few - OK! for one) teach basically the same things; be good!"

Which one is that?

No graven images is one of the things they take seriously in Afghanistan. A corporate logo or a photo of a pop star would be an example. I don't think western society could handle it.

I don't think western society could handle it either, and if that's what 'graven images' really means, I don't think I would want that being taught to my kids. Just out of curiosity, if a kid creates their own symbol to stand for whatever they wanted, would that be a graven image as well?

We got into a big debate about this in my ethics class. Most of the class was for it. Myself and a few others were not. We gave over 15 reasons against it. Our opposition only had two, one which was shot down by the prof.

Which religion says not to be "good"? And what is "good" exactly?

I wish I would have been there. That seems like it would have been interesting.

Oh it was. There were a lot of angry and offended people (many of them at me!)

Yes it would. The idea is that you see nothing but the work of God, and don't consider it coming from elsewhere. For me, I see God coming through the graven images. If I see an apple icon on tv, it's a reminder to eat that apple in my fridge. I still see a computer logo though.

Where do people get the idea from that the ten commandments is some all encompassing moral code. The first four have nothing to do with morals or ethics and are unconstitutional at best. There is no mention of slavery, rape or child abuse. And I'm pretty sure my SO has never coveted our neighbour's wife.

Apparently god was a couple millenia ahead of us on the lesbian trend.

Christians should stop imposing their beliefs to others.

If the school wants to. It shouldn't be forced on them, but they shouldn't be barred from doing it either.

Alas, I fear it has more to do with the ten commandments having been written by Hebrew men for Hebrew men. Since women were regarding as property, subservient to their lord and master. Thou shalt not commit adultery is merely a variant of thou shalt not steal. Thou shalt not covet they neighbours ox, wife or house shows just at what level they thought women were.

Sure, if other religious beliefs were present too. Kids should be taught about religion but it shouldn't be the "here is what you should belief" Christian indoctrination that they did when my mum was young, it should be learning about all different religions, comparing the moral rights and wrongs of those religions and asking individuals how they feel. We should encourage people to explore religion without making them feel it is right or wrong to have or reject religion.

Should they heck

Do not have an affair.

As if that is relevant to kids

Never mind.... I didn't mean yours!

The kind that allows men to throw battery acid in women's faces....

absolutely not. We are not a Christian state and we should not be posting one religion's mandates in our schools.

Bad.

And what religion is that exactly?

I am a bit crabby about this, because I was the only half-Jewish kid in a Roman-Catholic public school for three years, and I was always getting crucifixes shoved down my throat. The Ten Commandments don't seem particularly insightful in any way to me, and it's a dour prospect, thinking of little kids having to reread them and reread them again while standing in line or whatever. Religion should be kept out of public schools altogether, I think.

That seems a bit extreme to me. What if you don't consider your drawings or symbols as having anything to do with God? How is it any different than painting flowers on the bathroom wall? And how would they think of posting that commandment on the school, when there would be decorations all over the place, even right next to it?

The ten commandments also don't have anything to do with the common discipline problems of kids. There's nothing in there about fighting, throwing stuff in class, talking out, skipping school, using drugs and whatnot.

no, unless other religious beliefs are represented as well

Yes.. nothing about smoking or using drugs, nothing about not doing your homework or bunking off school, nothing about not bringing guns or knives into school, nothing about physical violence toward teachers or students, nothing about respecting the opinions and beliefs of others, nothing about respecting the race, sexuality, physical appearance or innocence of others.

If you were really desperate to try and make it fit, you might lump all this under "Honour they mother and father", or the unregarded 11th commandment, "Love thy neighbour as thyself", but don't forget that most of these commandments ("Honour they mother and father" included) reflected laws that were punishable by death.

See Deuteronomy 21:18-21

No.

No. Parents should give their children the kind of spiritual training they want them to have. This may include teaching them the commandments, taking the children to church (or synagogue, temple,etc.), or whatever. And it is essential that parents teach kids the difference between right and wrong, and set good moral examples.

Yep

absolutely not.

Although many of the ideas in the commandments are "good ideas," the very idea of there being commandments is not consistent with all other religious practices. Saying that they are all so similar denies and obfuscates some very basic differences in the teachings. If you posted on a wall the Buddhist Four Nobel Truths and the Eightfold path, next to the Ten Commandments, you could easily set up a facile comparison to say, "see, look, we all basically believe the same thing." But its very untrue, the attitude with which a Christian might comprehends a Commandment is very very different than the attitude with which a Buddhist would approach his or her teachings. If I had a child I would be very uncomfortable with them being bombarded daily by the concept of "thou shalt not..." regardless of what followed.

What for?

If it was a roman-catholic school, it wasn't public, was it?

Not all do.

Religion is something that should be personal. There is no reson to display it for others to see it. Yes, it's freedom of speech if one does it in their backyard, bumber sticker, t-shirt, but getting a 'permit' to put something up like that, better yet, with tax payers $, bad idea!

No. That's biasing Christian religion.

Perhaps someone here needed that explained.
Now that I've seen the resurrection, I can easily believe the moses and the tablets story was an accurate literal story too, but even then, I'd still believe it was for ancient hebrew men, as you say.
The story was significant in that it took place in a context where both the logos and the passing of tales and scriptures were in the oral tradition. A reminder that the word is made both flesh and stone.
This ties into the comment coming for joalis.

Read the comment I just posted to Icurock first.
Talk about your commandments being written in stone, their old Islamic buildings (study the Alhambra, a 12th? century copy residing in Spain after the destruction of the crusades)were almost entirely ornamented every square inch in scriptures carved into the stone or painted on the ceramic tiles. They did allow ornamentation like paisley and snow flakes designs but even that if you witness it in a mystical state represents cosmological structures of energy, matter, and the programmatic proliferaration of life (nano-tech, genetics, matter-kniting mind rays). Earth is like that, these are the first folks I've seen represent that god lives in matter to such a degree. (Like in my TV, the tree bark, the birds, everywhere) When I visited a new mosque under construction I got the sensation that they beleve in the transmigration of the soul, basically hanging out worshipping in a tomb, with a big antenna on the roof and a chain link fence of stars waiting to teleport to a way station on the moon.
Living in scriptures. I have no idea if they teach any sort of art there.

Yes, it was, because this is a third-world, Central American country.
It's the way things are here

But way too many do.

Thank you!

So, how do modern day Christians interpret that commandment about graven images?

Here's an interpretation I found on the web.

to set any creature, person or thing as an object of worship or the source of happiness, truth or moral guide.

I don't see anything wrong with it. Just because these are religious commandments, doesn't make them any different from other rules. I think "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" would be a better option. That covers almost everything.

What is wrong with "thou shalt not kill"? or any other commandment. I think they translate very well to other religions. The reason why they are called commandments is because "don't kill if you don't want to" is meaningless. All religions preach basically the same stuff when it comes to behaviour. Deeper teachings such as resurrection or reincarnation aren't rules to live by. Would you be more comfortable with a sign that read "Please do not kill, please listen to your parents, please don't be jealous of what another person has...etc"?

Ask Kaleb777...

Frankly, I don't even like the idea of "commandments". Nonetheless, without tripping on the flowers in the carpet, all religions do teach people how to live their life with good advice. Some of the advice is now out-dated, but at the time it was written - it was appropriate. I like to teach my children to explore all religions and to take from them what is good for them. I still have not been convinced by any that theirs was the "true" religion. So I just believe in the common creator of us all, I don't like any religion because they are man made and none are in no way above God...

If someone didn't mind anyone around them throwing stuff, yelling, moving their things around and such, the golden rule gives them lisence to do that to other people.

no, i wouldn't want that.

That's your belief- that it would be meaningless to say "don't kill if you don't want to." There is another belief that says if someone else, including some "higher power" tells you what to do and not do, including killing, it's pretty meaningless. That's my whole point- that people assume that religions preach the same stuff, and that everyone has commandments, but that, in fact, that assumption is erroneous. "Deeper teachings, such as..." in this case I would say "karma," are in fact rules that millions and millions of people live by. By saying they're not just re-enforces why I would be uncomfortable with your commandments being in a school to which I would send my hypothetical kids.

I'm a christian,but,I just don't see how posting the Ten Commandment could possibly improve the academic achievements or behavior for students.For some reason,it loses it's meaning in public schools.How can that possible improve anything???

If anything prayer would help more,than posting an insignificant sign of the Ten Commandments.

In Catholic Schools it's expected to be posted,taught,& lived by as a way of life.It's like second nature there.When you attend a Catholic or other religious schools,you attend that particular school,because you are already of that religion,& want to learn more & become closer to that religion.In Catholic schools you read,talk,learn,live,breathe the religion daily.At school & at home. What good would it be to just see a sign posted of the ten commandments if you don't learn,talk,read ,breathe it daily at school & at home?????Who's going to teach the meaning of it& the significance of it,should a child ask what it all means?? He's likely to get hundreds of different answers.Is the school going to have a clergyman on staff too??Or does a principle have a one time auditorium get together & try to explain it to the kids?? What??? Is there going to be a course too?? It's stupid!!

I think that christian schools would be better suited to enhance the essence of it.The nuns are really,really good at it!!!!.It's part of their curriculum.

It's not part of the public schools curriculum.

Excellent points, too!

At first I didn't think anyone would understand where I was coming from. Thanks Topper.

Um, what religion doesn't teach "be good" and allows men to throw battery acid in women's faces?

Irene007 is being cryptic and says to ask you.......

I suspect she's hinting at Islam (since some Muslim fundamentalists have thrown acid in the faces of women not wearing a burqa). Of course, some Christian fundamentalists have killed doctors who perform abortions yet I don't hear her condemning Christianity (nor treating the fringe wackos as representative of the religion as a whole).

That was what I was thinking too but she's refusing to actually come out and name a religion! What I've read so far of the Koran (which admittedly isn't much yet) has been about treating others well - nothing yet about battery acid......

I read an article in a teen magazine about men who attack young women with battery acid and burn their faces. I cant remember whether it was because the women had left them or something like that but I think that is what she is referring to. I believe it was muslims, but I cant see them being representatives of the whole islamic population.

I know Muslims do attck women with battery acid, but I don't think that has anything to do with the religion. I read an awful account in the Amnesty international magazine about a man whose wife left him because he beat her. He tracked her down and poured acid over her. There was a photo of her with the article, she was really pretty but now she doesn't have anything that could be called a face

Here's an email I received. I think it's interesting.

NOW that the President has called us to prayer.....

NOW that Congress has called us to prayer.....

NOW that our Governor has called us to prayer....

NOW that the city Mayor has called us to prayer....

NOW that the "liberal" media and most other branches
of our American society
have called us to prayer.....

AND NOW that our churches are assembling in special
prayer....

"Honorable" Justices of the Supreme Court, I have
only one question..

Would it be O.K. to pray in our schools........??

An American Citizen & Christian

I think that email has it backwards. Prayer in school should not be reinstated, the other "official" instances of prayer should be stopped! In the government's supposed rush to embrace "all faiths", they've completely ignored atheists (not to mention non-mainstream "faiths" like Paganism and Satanism). I am livid that my tax dollars are being used to fund religious activities.

After this all happened, I started being acutely aware of how permeated our society is with religiosity. Our money has "In God We Trust" printed on it. Our kids are expected to pledge allegiance to a nation "under God". Our officials are sworn into office with religious oaths. We're not a land of tolerance, we're a land where Jesus freaks run the show. Now the Jesus freaks are giving token nods to the Allah freaks, big deal.

To give equal respect to all religions (or lack thereof), we should start printing money with "In Satan we trust" on it, have our kids pledge allegiance to their own potential, and have officials sworn into office in a voodoo ceremony.

It's awful isn't it. Nothing gets done to the men cos the police dont do anything, it's disgusting. I agree it has nothing to do with religion.

I thought about that after I wrote the comment. What if we're taking about a pain freak or some other weirdo?

Only if doctrine of other religions are posted as well. To post only the Ten Commandments would be discriminatory to other religions.

No religion teaches that. butt-holes who misinterpret religious writings or use religion as a power play throw acid in women's faces. That's why it's dangerous to label the nuts who do terrorist acts as muslims, because they really aren't. They are just nuts.

Oh, I thought you lived in San Fransisco or LA or somewhere.

I disagree, I think that's just a stereotype. Most christians don't believe on forcing their religion onto others, it's just that the ones who do are way more publicized.

I was born in S.F. I've just about lived everywhere, but a few years ago we moved here permanently (Costa Rica).

Not only them, but consider this: Some people don't like their personal property being touched. Other people would rather have you move their things, rather than disturb them as they are studying. If you see someone at a study table, and their books and papers they are not using are spread into another work area, would you move it yourself, or ask them if they will move it? If what they would prefer differs from what you would prefer, the golden rule would not apply.

Okay, whatever. I thought you didn't live with your parents or something. My bad.

That's what I thought!

I marked several answers because I don't think we should post them in public schools. Religion needs to be taught at home and not at school, besides we can't force our religion on others. The Ten Commandments are the greatest rules of all but we need to teach our children them ourselves.

No way, who are christians to think that they're right? Either ALL religions should be respected or (preferably) NONE of them should be. Children need to make up thier own minds too, not have one religion pushed in thier faces.

I don't. This is complicated
My parents moved me here. A few months ago I decided I wanted to live on my own. As I'm an A student, mature and responsible (according to some people) they said okay, but I had to have a roommate they approved of, and they've always liked Ian so he agreed to live with me. They've always understood that I hate their rich, overdone lifestyle. So kudos to them for that. I live about a half hour or so away from them (by car). Some people think it's a big deal, but I don't know why.

How about we stick with the status quo then? That seems to be working well doesn't it? - NOT! Not many schoolyard massacres before separation of church and state was there?

No, the status quo isn't working too well, but I don't think posting the ten commandments would change anything either. I don't think schoolyard massacres and the separation of church and state are the slightest bit related.

It's all to do with discipline, and empathy. If the rules are good, I don't see what difference it makes if they are Christian, Islamic or Jewish. Disallowing anything religious into schools has had some effect. Without religion, which makes people aware that their actions are being watched wherever they are, people will think they haven'y done anything wrong if they aren't caught. There's a lot to be said for a fear of being punished in the afterlife.

That's true. It's hard (but possible) to teach someone right and wrong without religion. There are plenty of non-religious folks out there who do an excellent job of teaching their kids how to act.

Alright, whatever. Not that complicated.

Okay

Boy, this one has inspired quite a bit of discussion. Incidentally, I thought your cryptic comment referred to Satanists until I read down further. Their credo seems to be: "Do whatever gives you the most pleasure."

If you identify as being one with the entirety of creation, that's not a bad credo. It's when you consider yourself an island apart that it can be a problem.

Sure -- they should also post the Bill of Rights, the Wiccan Rede, and every teacher should be required to say "Hare Krishna" at the beginning and ending of each class.

Some of the commandments...thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal (covet thy neighbors possessions), etc...ok, those apply to most faiths (I won't say all..I don't know all faiths). That bit about "Thou shalt not have any strange Gods before me/us (depending on the translation you have)" could be a problem....

I don't think it hurts, but lots of other people do.

the ten comandments are very good for every one, even people who are not religious

I kinda like that too - in good measure!

Absolutely!!

Look what has happened to this country since they banned Bible reading in schools. Posting of the Ten Commandments can stand as a reminder we all need to adhere to some form of ethical and behavioral standards. If we do not hold to some standard, we all could be bin Ladens. With anything else, everyone is always crying "free speech." It is only fair to allow the Ten Commandments.

I think I've changed my opinion on this somewhat.
In most schools I've been to, there are subject specific classrooms. An art room, a science lab, a maths room. I think its perfectly acceptable for the 10 commandments to be displayed in a classroom devoted to religious education (assuming examples of the teachings of other religions are displayed as well).
The idea of posting the ten commandments in a common place within the school, such as assembly hall or playground is still to me wholly inappropriate. Do people really think that children are going to be better behaved if they are told not to covet their neighbour's ox, commit adultery or carve graven images?
If you want to display a list of ethical standards or a moral code, then I suggest you ask the children to form one themselves. I guarantee that a class of 15 year olds given 30 minutes to discuss a list of 10 rules could come up with something a damn sight better than the 10 commandments (four of which have nothing whatsoever to do with morality).

Just because the ten commandments aren't posted in schools, that doesn't mean no one is holding students to any standards.

The 10 commandments are not universal precepts. They come out of a particular monotheistic and patriarchal world view. And that would really violate separation of church and state to me.

there is a reason separation of church and state is amendment one. Public schools are paid for with taxpayer money. Is it fair that an atheists tax money goes to funding a sign espousing the Christian version of morality? Absolutely not! If we say that posting the 10 commandments is a good influence on kids, and a good moral code then we are simply on our way as a nation to becoming just like the Taliban. The next thing you know we will have morality police patrolling the schools handing out detentions for a teenager "coveting" her classmates shoes.

I am "for" learning about other peoples religions and beliefs as long as everyone has the right to share and their beliefs are not pressed upon me or anyone that I know.

It's wrong because the school will be based on that religion, and it's not fair because others will be persecuted if they do not believe in Christian religion. I know because I've been there.

No...that's why it's called a PUBLIC SCHOOL and not a CHRISTIAN or CATHOLIC or whatever other religious type of school...if you want to impose your religion on other people you do it in a place designated for religion...not in schools where various religious beliefs are all present.

I think the idea of posting any religious document in a public school is strange. In Australia we have occasional after school religious programmes open to children to attend with their parents' permission, but there is no expectation for any religion to be promoted in school.

IF U WANT TO AFFECT KIDS RELIGIOUSLY UR GONNA HAV 2 DO A LOT MORE THAT POST THE COMMANDMENTS ON WALLS MY FRIEND