Should same sex couples have the right to marry legally?

Of course.

I am as straight as they come but my opinion is this:
People marry for love and I believe that if two people are in love with eachother regardless if it is same sex or not they should have the right to marry that person. Trying to stop same sex marriages is as bad as when blacks couldnt drink from the same water fountains as whites.

Since April 1, 2001 The Netherlands is the first and only country on this planet where homosexuals can marry legally and thus have the same rights as heterosexuals.

Why not?

Yes, whatever it takes to make anyone happy is fine by me--as long it won't hurt anybody or anything.

I do not care.

You twits that answered "yes" should be ashamed of yourselves. How could you taint an institution as sacred as marriage with frickin' homos?

Oscar, knock it off already!

No kidding.
Marriage is quite sacred when one allows it to be, gay people value it as much. Why does this bother you so much? Personally?

I think so..I mean, does it really impact anyone else except the two people married, and where do any of us have a right to interfere with something so personal?

Who should care if same sex couples want to marry but same sex couples? I say pass the law and let it be.

Ahhh...flowers and gowns and champagne and promises of love forever. Oh, that's just peachy!

But the real question is should same sex couples also have the right to divorce legally. I mean they're asking to bound together forever right? Marriage is a combination of religious and civil responsibilities.

(I leave it to others to discuss the religious.)

Currently same sex couples are at liberty to enter into and terminate relationships with few legal consequences. (Granted without many legal rights either.)

The current statistic is that 50% of all heterosexual marriages end in divorce. Why would one deduce that same sex marriages will have any greater success rate?

Just imagine for the moment the publicity surrounding the the first same sex divorce case! The networks would have a field day with two already injured parties.

What a excuse for all those who might oppose same sex marriage in the first place to say; "I told you so!" The zealots would be out in full force. (Heaven protect us!)

What about children, natural or adopted? There would always be that "third" party out there somewhere vying for rights. In heterosexual divorce cases, courts traditionally have leaned toward awarding custody to the mother. What mother? Which mother?

And let's not forget general public opinion. "You asked for marriage, now you want to end it causing social and legal uproar? Look what you are doing to our society! The cost of establishing new legal precedents and applicable laws. Your spending my tax dollars on your lousy divorce?" Backlash even from the strongest heterosexual supporters (particularly political) would be devastating to the promotion of gay/lesbian rights.

Messy, messy, messy!

I'm not against or for same sex marriages. I am against persons of any sexual pursuasion lightly entering into marriage.

A word of caution to all you same sex couples out there.
Be careful for what ya wish for, ya just might get it! In spades.

In spades? Im unfamiliar with the term.

You are kidding me, yes?
Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

"Spade -1 a: a black figure that resembles a stylized spearhead on each playing card of one of the four suits; also: a card marked with this figure b plural but singular or plural in construction: the suit comprising cards marked spades.

Expression - IN SPADES: to an unusually great degree : in the extreme."

There are other meanings to be sure, but none other was intended here.

no, I believe it hurts the country. And, it's against the church.

well if hitler was still alive then where would you be? And if you have two sex organs then you are a freak of nature.

YES, obviously!! We have a concept called "separation of church and state." In order to pass a law against something, you have to be able to show that it causes some kind of actual harm. If all you've got against it is some religious scripture, then that can't be allowed to affect the law. The government is required to grant equal marriage benefits to anyone who applies for it, but the churches can decide to do whatever they feel like. http://www.queerbychoice.com

How can you have something that is so wrong and try to make it right. It would be like trying to get two male horses or something like that and getting them to fall in love. Seriously those people who are gay are screwball in the head. You may think I'm being a lil' harsh here but like I said they are nice people and what I think of them I keep to myself but when they want to get married and have the same rights as married people then you have a major problem

I am a lesbian, and if I fall in love with another women I should be allowed to marry her

I feel that they should have the right to mary, it wont hurt anyone

Yes, I feel strongly that they should. Don't quote the bible as the basis of your argument against same-sex marriage, that assumes I'm Christian. I'm looking for one good reason why two folks of the same sex who truly love one another should not be afforded the same rights and privileges as any other heterosexual couple. From a reproductive standpoint, we are not an endangered species. What is the real harm, other than it being offensive to you on a religious basis? Does that make you right?

On a personal note, I've been married. Why on earth anyone who didn't truly love their partner would wanna go through it is a mystery to me (unless their fortune hunting). I think you should have to study for and pass a marriage exam before being allowed a marriage license...same with having kids.

We are a gay couple and very happy. However we require the same benefits that straight couples currently enjoy. Medical and other insurance programs that straight families now have, we are lacking in. While the airlines and some government run companies have now accepted same sex partner benefits, the rest of the business world still have a long way to go. A Legal commitment would be our key to real happiness. We pay taxes, yet we cannot claim each other and receive our tax credit, as straight couples now get. Its the twentieth century isn't time that we are accepted too?

If someone wishes to sin without thought of spending a life in hell for it then so be it. But please do not ask for my money to give support to you because you are now " legally " married and eligible
for benefits because of it. Why not have sex with our dogs and
marry them. This is the next step in the downward moral spiral

Again, I shall say to all those idiots that equate homoseuxality with necrophilia, beastiality, and pedphilia. KNOCK IT OFF! Corpses, children, and animals CANNOT consent. Two adults who either love or lust for each other, CAN consent. Come up with a new argument dumb-ass, becuase this old is more full of crap than a fertilizer factory.

I just want to say in reply to BrianW (I would reply to him but he has me filtered), that I didn't make any of these anonymous comments.
I was just reading through some old surveys and saw this one that I guess I must have missed when the comments about me were made

good. a person should feel good about anything they have to say, and do so with joyful fearlessness. If your motive is compassionate love with the most encompassing big picture. This involves striving to totally understand why a person would feel the way they do, and if you can't see something to that extent, making understanding of it your communication goal. Once you totally understand the mindsets then you can speak in your experience of why one attitude works better than another. No one short of God's omniscience should be absolutely certain of their convictions. Look what happens when people are willing to die in religious battle for their beliefs. Compassion comes first. I haven't been following your new policy, but I'm glad.
You know I'm a firm believer in God, but my faith is based on experience. I had an excercise in class where my job was to defend the existence of God to a non-believer based solely on scriptures. I couldn't do it. I'm glad life doesn't place me in that impossible position. Faith based solely on scriptures mixes with the scientific mind like fire and water. Much better to be a living demonstration of the embodiment of scriptural wisdom.

Yes, their love is just as real as anyone elses.

No, I feel strongly that they should not be allowed to marry each other.

I think not.

er..yes.
What a busy and diverse little survey. I really don't know what to say.

Sure - why deny someone else happiness? People try to mess in others' personal business too much.

   I think anyone who is equated to humans in rights should be able to legally marry anyone who is also equated to humans. That's a clumsy definition, I know... What I mean is that women used not to be equated to humans, now it's thankfully in the past. Nowadays gays are not equated to humans. Even though it's next millennium already, some people still seem to live in the medieval times.
   And as to zoophiles with animals being the same as same sex human couples... First you prove to me that animals are equal to humans, and then I'll think it over. Not before.
   If I'm willing to have my taxes spent on legislation of same-sex marriages? Yes. You know, I will gladly spend my money on anything that will make the world a better place for my children. Reducing the amount of hatred and prejudice certainly leads that way. Not to mention that they may just happen to be attracted to the same sex too.

should be executed

Grow up you anonymous coward.

I think it is very unfair to deny ANYONE the right to marry the one they love. it is no one else's business besides the two partner involved. It is complete ignorance to reply that it is "disgusting" or "repulsive". The only reason why you would think so is because you don't understand. And and anything you don't understand you should have no right to pass judgement on. I feel that in a country that is founded on equally, should automatically say that it's up to the people, ANY people, who they marry. This is just a new form of prejudice. It's no better than what the whites did to the blacks by denying them their right to equality, or what men did to women. And those people who think that homosexuality is no better than having sex with animals, you are ignorant as well, because everything is based on consent. Humans have the capability to say yes or no. Animals don't. The bible also should not have anything to do with homosexual marriages, The bible has been interpreted in so many different ways who knows what was actually originally said. And god has no relevance because god isn't in the here and now. When you die then you will be judged but until that day you or anyone else has no right to tell someone that you may not even know that they cant get married.

* ALSO, put yourself in there shoes. How would you feel if you found the one person that makes you feel complete. The person that is you complete soul-mate, who makes you so happy, and all you wanted to do was spend the rest of your life with happily and receive the same benefits as any other married couple (taxes, medical ect.) BUT, society says no it's not right, how would you feel? You would be absolutely devastated.

*And I say all of this as a straight person.

no let them stay in the closet where they belong. the only reason they want to get married is so they can be tax benefits. i say give the benefits to the moral and good representatives of our society, not a bunch of diseased people. half the people on the site our diseased with homosexuality so i know they won't agree...but i don't care. gays and lesbians are mentally diseased and we should not encourage their behavior by condoning it with a valid marriage. they should all seek intense therapy and maybe one day they will be normal. they will be far more happy then, and live productive lives such as myself. i want everyone who agrees with me to have the guts to comment (anonymously of course).

Shut up Joe. We know it's you.

That is not the only reason any more than that is the only reason for you. How can you believe people are deluded about their own feelings without questioning your own as well? The majority of gays try living a 'normal' life first then come out of the closet to find they are happier. I think that what bothers you is that your way isn't the only way, and although I doubt you are gay, that not everyone considers the same things to be true might be a feared provocation for you to reconsider the absolute validity of all your beliefs. Multiple persons can be right about how to run their own lives and still not believe the same things. Their doing so doesn't even implicate that there is not unity and meaningful purpose in creation, only that we have to accept rather than condemn each other. To do otherwise would create a stepford-wife clone scenario in which most probably people would condemn each other for wearing wool instead of cotton or being left handed. Does 'productive' mean having children? It's the only practical concern about being gay, other than dealing with the sentiments of folks like you. If it's about producing children then should barren or sterile people be denied marriage? I agree the parts don't fit as well together, but that's a sacrifice most are willing to make and others cherish. If you believe that there is some other difference between the sexes, than you open the door to various wrong-proven ideologies like women should not work, or be seen and not heard. I hope you don't plan to do that. If you believe that the differnces that count in this situation are psychological, does that then mean that it would be improper for a straight couple to get married, even though the woman is a brutish bridge engineer and the husband prefers to stay home working on the house and garden, and making sunday picnic baskets? Either way, anatomy or psychology, the argument is shallow and denies people the right to intimately cherish as suits their personality.
In my opinion the only argument on your behalf is the issue of raising of children with their original parents in a lasting marriage. I feel a parent should love their step-child or adopted child with just as much love as if it were of their own seed however. You might also note that the nuclear marriage is a western concept. In matriarchial societies as are found in Africa, a persons family is always the extended family of their mother. A man cares for sisters child, and the brothers and sisters of his mate will care for his own. In the modern Israeli kibbutz, children are raised communally. Ancient Greeks and Romans were gay, and matriarchial or patriarchial, yet they lasted nearly a millenium. Many other civilisations have lasted as long and I'm sure many of those had different relationship arrangements than you favor, including harems and such. Our civilisation isn't that old. Certainly not as old as that of ancient Egypt. A century ago americans still had arranged marriages. The extended family gave way to the nuclear family after agriculture was industrialised. I suspect a human has been cloned by now, and they're simply reluctant to break the news. Clintons moratorium on cloning is up, and I suspect it was merely a guise to keep attention off of all the work that continued while public opinion adjusted to the idea.
The heart of the matter is a loving relationship. The lesbian and gay people I have met have not appeared any less loving and friendly socially, nor less committed to the nurture of their private relationships than the average straight people I meet; if anything, i'd say they outshine on the average. Perhaps that is because they have had to endure adversity together, or have been forced to be confidentally open-minded due to the classification of their status.
As to their being happier within your template: If you had a child that loved brussel sprouts and hated ice-cream, I hope you wouldn't put them through years of therapy over it, until they changed their desires. If you've been paying attention here at SC, you'd have noticed that I spent my first 33 years as a man, and have had far more happiness living as a woman these last 6-9 years. I have had to pretty much sacrifice my sex life while looking for a suitable solution, like a lesbian that doesn't care about anatomy, but overall it's been worth the sacrifice to be able to feel good about who I am and face the world with love. Would my life have been easier if I could do that as a man? You bet. But no psychological treatment short of replacing the majority of my inner being is going to change that, yet at least I am blessed with the strength to overcome adversity and change towards a fulfilling life, just as mankind is blessed with the ability to create food, clothing, dwelling, education, relationships, employment, etc. I could have done nothing about it, but I was suicidal back then and didn't really feel alive as a man.
Perhaps you could dig a bit deeper into the heart of the matter and tell me exactly what you think is 'wrong' about gay relationships. As is, your comments remind of people that don't believe animals are conscious enough to experience pain. Most people with your view are Christian. Wether you are or not, I invite you as an exercise in compassion to imagine being a gay person that has no aversion to being gay and is devoted to their partner such that they would wish to be married till death do them part. really this is an exercise you should do whenever confronted with a different ideology. People do what they feel is appropriate within their belief system; some do vows of poverty, others steal office supplies. Generally if they thought it was wrong after a lifetime of what society has been showing them, they wouldn't be doing it. Most everyone wants to be person they can love and respect. Some think competition in business or relationships is a virtue, others find it a crime against humanity. The point is that we can not judge another because their entire life circumstance is different than our own, and most probably equally virtuous within their own framework, even if they kill over drug swindles. - 'No harm done. Live and let live.' is a pretty decent common code in our time. It might fall a bit short of 'Serve God by serving others' or other positive creative variants of the golden rule, but it's at least a step towards world harmony. Gays are not against world harmony. If anything, they see the need more strongly than others.
To review: diversity, sincere feeling, superficial arguments (body or personality discrimination), family structure (historical, international, modern, evolving), parental love, propensity, overcoming adversity, Request for deeper explanation, Exercise in compassionate understanding, diversity of worldview, and codes of harmony.

..and i don't need to comment anonymously, though others on either side of the issue are welcomed to do so.

.. or I could go the other direction and simply suggest that anonymous commentors who call half of the chat site 'diseased' are less than pillars of society and should be prevented from taking tax loopholes through marriage ('course what are they going to do anyhow, find some other diseased anonymous commentor to shack up with for a few years, until they have a revelation about the error in their ways?)
.. but I won't.
Just live and let live.
You are speaking against the self-defense of those who would live out their lives with the same joy as you if they had their way, and be just as quiet or exuberant about it.
If you're going to take up moral battle, let it be to spread compassion to those who's heart is not in the right place, by being compassionate yourself. and that means understanding, not simply encouraging others to do what works for you.

I feel strongly that they should not.

Who is me? FUDGE YOU YOU MOTHER FUDGEER, STOP BLAMING ME, AND GET OUT OF HERE!

marry, defend themselves, or live?
You are entitled to your view although you can see I disagree. My concern is that you remind me of a three year old that answers 'because', not 'because..'. I would hope that even Christians who believe in the most stringent of codes at least attempt to learn some wisdom and discern the reasoning behind the codes themselves. If they do not, they are ill prepared to make wise judgements in situations that are not in the book such as genetic manipulation.
If you believe that is covered by the 'natural' clause, and the natural clause means things should be done as they always have been done, then even heart surgery could be interpreted as unnatural; and indeed, some religions have taken that interpretation.
You are at a site that has always valued non-anonymous debate, and BrianW has been here for years. Perhaps he was out of line, but it's not like you are trapped in a dark dead-end alley chased by assault-rifle armed animate rag dolls.
Personally, I think I'd even accept 'I don't know why' as an honest dignified human response.
At this point I'm thinking your reason is 1) The bible as you interpret it says so, and 2) You personally feel it is objectionable with no more reasoning than why you might not like touching reptiles. Do I understand you correctly?
You would have to have an amazingly compelling argument such that has probably never been formulated on this earth to sway mandy and sue-bee; perhaps one more compelling than which it would take you to consider walking on your hands instead of your feet. Mandy has a connection with God, as do I. I get frequent divine advisement on my behavior. Fortunately it merely points out the dilemnas I face regarding my gender decision. In contrast, my smoking of cigarettes is constantly advised against. My point here is that they are not bound by 2000 year old guidelines for a form of society that no longer exists. Your only course of swaying their opinion is social reasoning. They already know what they feel, and they already know which social issues they face. I can assure you they are a happy couple. The only things you could achieve here are affecting the unformulated views of others, and standing by your own views. I suggested before, spend your chivalry where it can be productive and appreciated. As is, you are probably even undermining the case you would wish to impart to others.

.. or were you referring to anonymous commentors taking marriage tax loopholes?

First of all, I was yelling at Brian cause he assumed that I made the anonymous comments, which I didn't. And as for the Bible, HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO TELL YOU PEOPLE I BELIEVE IN THE QUR'AN? I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN! Heart surgery is not unnatural because it is natural to try to save lives. However, homosexuality is unnatural because it goes against the way God planned everything. God created men and women to complement each other, yet homosexuals have turned back on that and wish to follow their sinful instincts. Furthermore, I'd like to say that you don't have any direct connection to God, as only the prophets and messengers did. And also, if you believe in God, then why would you mutilate the body God gave you to become halfway a woman? It doesn't matter how hard you try, you will never fully become a woman. At this point, I couldn't call you a man or a woman.

Sigh. You don't get it do you? We don't LIKE screaming bigots who make bad surveys round here. I've been here Four Years. How long have you been here? If anyone's gonna leave it's gonna be you my ugly racist comrade.


* - By Ugly I mean racism is ugly. I have no idea what you look like. I have an image, but it's too funny to mention.

Oh, you're not a dyke. You're are a he-she. Ha, that's funny. A filthy wanna-be woman running around preaching to people about morality and in mean time you lack all sense of morality. Hey, what's matter you did not have what it takes to cut it as a man?

I am not racist. How am I racist? And I don't care about your four years of experience. In my one year here I have caused more controversy than you will ever cause.

Brain, why don't you leave JoeSchmoe2003 alone. Isn't he entitled to his own beliefs. Just because someone doesn't agree with you or the majority that gives you the right to call them names. Well, I'll tell the truth about you, you are most likely gay (repressed?), you are an arrogant pig who thinks he can push everyone around. You a stupid piece of crap. Do the world a favor and drop dead. You're a spineless whip. And by the way, nobody but you and your ice cream man friends give a crap what you like or don't like. jerk!

Blah, blah, blah... Just don't come crying out to the rest of the respectable community when you get AIDs from your filthy lifestyles. Furthermore, stop wasting tax payers hard earned money on your dumb fudging parades. Just shut-up already about your sexual orientation. I don't run out and tell everyone I know and don't know I am straight. So why do you people always have to make such a big deal about the fact you're jerks. I mean what in the hell do you have so much to be proud about... gay pride, LOL...what a joke. FILTHY DISEASED MENTALLY ILL PEOPLE WHO ARE TOO DEPRAVED TO RECOGNIZE THE FACT THAT THEY ARE DISEASED!

Good going buddy! I respect the fact you are telling the truth to all these gays about the wrongness of their lifestyles(even when you're so out numbered). Keep up the good work.

Thank you very much. I have never been a sellout, and so I'm not changing my viewpoints on homosexuality to make people happy.

My theory is you are talking to yourself here. As for me not creating any controversy, it doesn't fudging matter. This is a COMMUNITY of FRIENDS! Civility and tolerance and lack of bigotry is a virtue not a vice. And I would appreciate it VERY much if you left Kristal alone!

I am not talking to myself. Why should I leave gay people alone? And stop calling me a bigot! You are a bigot cause you are against people who are against gay people! The problem is that you're a fudging liberal who has no morality. I happen to be a moderate, so don't ever call me a conservative. I bet you've probably already had sex with 20 women, and you're only 20 years old!

I know what you but what am I? THAT is what that post sounds like! Christ you are such a fudging child. You come in here, spouting your relgious zealotism, attacking GLBTs, many of them being my friends, throw around this meaningless 'proof' of the existence of god, and basiclaly just go sround pissing people off, and you call ME the bigot? I'm trying to prtect the Civil nature of the SC community cheesedick! The only postiive thing about your time here is that ASB and I are on speaking terms again. I am a Liberal, and I have PLENTY of morality. I have enver raped a woman, man, child, or animal, OR corpse. I am a virgin and fudging proud of it! Proud that I haven't turned over something so important to someone who doesn't care about me! You ar eno moderate. I know moderates. Moderates aren't so self-righteous and self-important as to claim that they and only them and those that think like them can decide what is best for people they don't fudging know. You say ONE more deragatory word about GLBTs, that are absed off your so-called faith, or stereotypes, or generalizations or anyohter sort of fudging lie like what you (as anonymous) have been saying to Kristal I wills ee ot it personally that you not only get baned but you're existence at SC wiped out. Every post you've ever made,e very survey you've ever made, and every reference to you will be gone. You will not exist here, if you don't shut the fudge up and think with your brain instead of your Bible!

Hey Brian, I am not JoeSchmoe2003 you stupid idiot. You are nothing more than a big crybaby. You don't get your way so now you threaten to try and get JoeSchmoe2003 banded for speaking his mind. You are a punk and jerk. I won't say a word to Kristal but he/she responded to me. I simply told you people the truth that you are diseased and need help. I guess the truth hurts you people. I am not afraid of your threats and I doubt anyone else is either. So why don't you just get back in your closet and shut the hell up!

Brian, go ask bill if I made the anonymous comments. He will tell you that I made NONE OF THEM. I never make anonymous comments because I feel it is cowardly. Not only that, but I never used the word "rape". I said "have sex", so don't turn it into rape. Is there any way that I can say that I think homosexuality is wrong? People like you just want to silence the anti-homosexuals, because you're too pussy to listen to our point of view. And I don't think you can ban me. Only bill can, and I doubt that he will ban me for being against homosexuality. Also, you tell me that being a Muslim is wrong, so you're being a bigot here. Tell me, how can I be against homosexuality and not make someone mad? And why can't I talk about my faith? If I am against homosexuality because it is against my faith, that is not cause for me to be banned. This is supposed to be a discussion board, but you just want to silence any opposition to gay rights. You have just attacked my freedom of speech and freedom of religion, so I don't know why you think bill will ban me.

"I never make anonymous comments because I feel it is cowardly." Is that any way to talk about a friend? Let's drop this whole issue. Brian, Kristal, you, and me will all respect each others viewpoints and let it go. Sounds good to me

Sounds fine to me also. That is, of course, if Brian and Kristal comply. But just who are you?

Pussy? jerk? This is your idea of 'just speaking your mind?' NO! It's bigotry, it's insulting and it has NO place in SC. Period. It is all I have been saying all along. You are refusing to lsiten. And I NEVER said beign a Muslim was wrong. I said religous ZEALOTISM was wrong. Fanatatcism is wrong. Blind loyalty is wrong. It's typical of gay bashing butt-hole like you and anonymous (who I STILL think are the saem person) to accuse anyone who tries to stand up for civil and equal rights of being a 'jerk.' All you do is bash homosexuals and bi-sexuals and then claim that people like me are bigots when we call you on your bullcrap! I have no issue with people talking about their faith! Kristal is a very spiritual person. So are many others here I consider friends. But unlike you they don't use their faith as an excuse to be really crappy to anyone they don't like. You'll never see a Buddhist or a TRUE follwoer of Mohommed or Christ carry one of those awful jerk + SIN signs. You are not a beleiver. You are a corruption foe very Holy concept I've ever read. I'm an Atheist but I study theology, and I cna say for certain that only re-wrritten adn misinterpreted texts allow for the crap you try to pass as faith. Bigotry is NOT an act of a man of faith. Period.

Different people have different views on who I am. Some friends and strangers think of me as woman, some as a he-she. Since I am more of a multiple personality, they are all fair labels. There is absolutely no basis to call me filthy, unless looking and acting like a celibate woman count, or the times i live off the land swiss-family robinson style and have to take washtub baths off the wood stove. I live by every word I preach. If you say those words are preaching morality, than I must be a moral person in your book. I was ashamed to be a man. The majority of them had values I considered vulgar. In spite of that, I had a loving relationship with an intelligent and loving woman who modeled for nudist beach magazines. I also have two wonderful kids. I might have stayed married if I had not committed my life to spiritual devotion at the time, and somewhat nurtured her affair with my brother, although that started happening a bit before my spiritual conversion and relieved the guilt I had for lusting after her best friend. It takes a lot more fearless courage to live as I do now, I can assure you.
What is the motive of your comment here? .. To have an opportunity to say 'I am better than you'. We all do what we do best. I'm sure I make a better transgendered minister than you would, and I'm sure you're better at something I don't know about since you comment anonymously. I can tell you this much, as either a man or woman, your comment makes you not terribly attractive to me in character. Chances are that most people will see through your behavior as well. If you want some respect from me, speak with heartfelt objectivity.
.. and to play upon your words, as a man, a vasectomy was as much cutting as I could stand for.

Thank you for the defense, but if anything, my sorrow would be for the negative passion these commentors endure. I liked what you had to say about those with deeper faith. I'm doing fine. What would I do here without those who find their angle of faith incomplete and unsatisfying? That 'foe' instead of 'of' typo was interesting. Your own cursing was no less inflammatory. Cursing can be used to convey ones strength of feeling or belie their lack of empowerment. It's almost certain to detract from pursuing a sincere debate however. Joe and A#16 do both seem to be fond of saying 'mother f__r', don't they?

Good point. Maybe I should lsiten to the peopel I defned once i awhile.

I am new to survey central, however, I have been reading the last few comments and I think some of the things said were repulsive. How can you call yourself religous and then judge other people like you do? Don't you know that your religion teaches tolerance and love?

It teaches tolerance and love, but it also teaches discipline and order. My religion forbids homosexuality, and it says clearly that homosexuality should not be tolerated.

So don't be a homosexual Joe!!!!!!!
The end.

I don't follow your religion and I don' t have to adhere to that discipline. Free country...free world freedom of religion...freedom from YOUR religion, Joe. I'm not Muslim...nothing in my belief system says I cannot fudge girls. If you must be intolerant then judge Muslims who follow that faith and its disciplines but still can't help but "give in" to homosexual desires. Leave other people who do not follow your religion and choose to live freely to make their own choices without your judgement.

Does this mean that if most people in a community thinks murder is unacceptable, then the ones who think murder is acceptable should get away with committing murder?

Do you really believe that a consensual loving same sex relationship can be compared to something as destructive and selfish as murder?

Personally I consider soldier's being guilty of conspiracy to murder. If soldiers only killed soldiers, and they all believed in what they were doing, then it is fair, do unto others as you would have them do unto you, or vice-versa. Gay relationships, unlike murders, are done by mutual consent.
But yes, people should be allowed to do whatever they like, however unfortunate, amongst others who feel the same. Indeed, there are instances of this thinking, like the code of thieves. It would be fine if thieves only stole from those who believe in thievery. Karma creates these social circles of conjunction somewhat anyhow. You wish to promote a view, and therefore your karma is to encounter opponents whom you can debate with. If you thought your faith was about promoting something else, like space aliens inspired our history, you run in to combatants proving that space visitation is impossible.

I am a bi and I would love to be able to get to know someone of the same sex and marry them but I have a hard time finding people who are not like the hypocrites that are on this site. Krystal and Brian are my favorites and I love what you stand for. We should be able to make our own decisions and I would just love for some anonymous person to pick on me because I can take it and I will have an answer to any question. I want to talk to Krystal because you are one of the coolest people you help us who are looking for someone to ask questions. Thank you and I will be looking forward to anyone who has a comment for me!!!

Thanks. I won't be around here as much now that college towards an education degree take up my time. Keep your arms open to the hypocrites in my absence. Seek common ground with them to understand where they come from while respectfully standing up for what reason emerges from that conjunction. It takes years of applied wisdom to not be a hypocrite; morality, fantasy idealism, practical reality, and socio-cultural values generally take much fearless reconciliation. Sometimes they can't merge, and even that requires reconciliation.

Thanks for writing me back I really appriciate it. And also thanks for the words of wisdom. I definatly keep those in mind. What are you studing in college? All those people are starting to get on my nerves but luckly you came around and helped me. I'm looking forward to hearing from you. And also I am waitng for any of you cowardless bastards!!!

I don't think there is a problem with it...

if they feel it nessicary...

Who is law or government to define "love", if two people,ANY TWO PEOPLE, can some how find love and happiness with each other, than more power to them.

I would like to hear one good reason why two people that are in love should be denied the right to make vows before god, friends, and family. The god i worship does not condem love, no matter how questionable that love may seems to other people, it is still love. Male and Male, or Woman and Woman, their happiness and loyalty to each other is all that matters.

ANONYMOUS 17, you are one sick-fudge. Its funny the way you hide behind your hate and won't even show us your real screen name. Gay people arn't saying they are better than straight people, they are just saying that gay people and straight people should be equals. You disgust me.

You do not have to be a conservative or a moderate to be moral. And YOU are the bigot, You are the one descriminating against a group of people, they are just PEOPLE, like you or I, why can't you f*cking psycho just leave them alone and let them live their own lives, quit judging people you moron. Who are you to say what is right or wrong, as long as they are happy that is all that matters!!!

WHY DO YOU PEOPLE KEEP COMPARING ANIMALS TO HOMOSEXUALS!?!??!?!?! HOMOSEXUALS ARE HUMAN BEINGS, CAPABLE OF LOVE JUST LIKE OTHER HUMAN BEINGS!!! HORSES AND OTHER ANIMALS DO NOT "LOVE" IN THE LITERAL SENSE OF THE WORD, PEOPLE HOWEVER CAN LOVE! JESUS FUDGING CHRIST I'M STEAMING!!

Why do you care so much? Is it really effecting you in any way if two people, any two people marry?

anonymous #14, HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU ARE BRAVE TO SPEAK YOUR BELIEF?! YOU'RE TALKING FROM A ANONYMOUS COMMENT YOU BIGOT!!! YOU ARE SERIUOSLY FUDGEED UP!!! HOW DARE YOU CONDEM SOMETHING YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT. WANT TO STEAL YOUR TAX MONEY?! ARE YOU INSANE!? THEY JUST WANT THE SAME RIGHTS AS YOU HAVE, IF YOU CONSIDER THAT STEALING? YOU ARE MAKING EXTREME GENERALIZATIONS, WHICH MAKE YOU LOOK IGNORANT AND PERJIDUCE. YOU ARE NOT SHOWING YOUR MORALITY, JUST YOUR HATE! ALL OF YOU "ANONYMOUS" COMMENTERS ARE!! USING WORDS LIKE "ice cream man" AND "DYKE" I'M SURE YOUR GOD WOULD APPROVE OF YOUR HATRED THOUGH RIGHT? AND FURTHER MORE, WHO THE F*CK ARE YOU TO DECIDE WHAT IS "NORMAL." BEFORE YOU GO JUDGING OTHERS, TAKE A LOOK AT YOUR OWN "NORMAL, MORAL, AND "PRODUCTIVE" LIFE. HOW DARE YOU DECIDE FOR SOMEONE ELSE WHAT SHOULD MAKE THEM HAPPY!!! YOUR COMMENT MADE ME WANT TO VOMMIT!!

How can you anonymous commenters say you are brave and sticking up for what you believe in, and not "sell-outs" when all you are doing is harrassing people? if anyone is brave it is Krystal_Rose, shes happy with who she is and is not affraid to deny it or hide behind an "anonymous" lable, she sticks up for her self and expresses her beliefs in a passive and civil yet powerful manner. Which is more than i can say to you ignorant, self-rightous "normal" people. GOD, just leave people alone! If it makes them happy and its not hurting you than who the fudge cares?

I'm so happy that I have no religion or hire diety telling me what is right and what is wrong. Your comments have made me realize how much more happy and beautiful the world can be when you are not a puppet to some "good-book" or a lamb to some "sheperd." Thank you.

That was a nice compliment on my style, thanks.
Actually, I do have a higher force nudging me on right and wrong, but it doesn't come from a book, it speaks to me directly. It let's me on some facts and philosophies that I might not otherwise be privy too, to sway my decisions at times.
Even many conservative traditional spiritual types have beautiful open-minded lives (though it becomes rarer). It's like accusing listeners of various music genres, or people in different carrers of having a particular disposition. There is a spectrum of being within every paradigm, even if there are genaralized tendencies.
People are more open to change if you open their range, and are accepting of where they are coming from. If you shut down what little they have, they will rationalize and defend themselves like a cornered animal. Keep a motive of realistic positive change in mind when interacting with difficult people. Hope that helps, it works for me, as you seem to have noticed.

What faith or spirituality do you follow? Explain if you don't mind.

It's more of a cosmology than a theology/theodicy. It's about what reality is and can do, not about rules of behavior. Have you ever seen 'the Matrix'? My life is like that where everyone and everything interacts directly with the back of my mind. It's called the Spanda Karikas, the faith specifically is called Kashmir Shaivism (a branch of hinduism). It's taught as one of many yoga disciplines within Sida Yoga. It's closest western equivalent is ancient Judaic Kabbalism. The core of the teaching is that only God exists, all else is an illusion. Because only the dream of God exists, my mind is of the same master architecture creating all I see. God is omniscient and omnipotent. It's possible for a person to experience infinite planes of consciousness and reality. The most esoteric teachings of buddhism and catholicism seem to say much the same thing. In practical terms, it means God can talk to me through a parallel interpretation of all I hear and see, and I can visit realties where everyone is telepathic. It's also convenient for supernatural activities. I've tasted just about every paranormal phenomenon known at one point or another in the last 13 years since my spiritual awakening. Because reality is created by god separating into perceiver and creation, one mirrors the other. This means karma; the world you experience operates in concordance with your thoughts, so it's best to be generous and trusting. Instant karma is where you are so close to the mirror that there is little distinction between what you think, and what you experience. If you compose poetry, you hear it over the radio, if you think lavendar, that becomes the color of the bonfire you are watching, if you are cheerful, the sun will shine and the birds will chirp. I'm a bit of a shaman and witch as well. One has to entertain themself with the gift of earthly creation and psychic interconnectivity with people, time, and places.

Thats really interesting, how'd you come across that faith? Phenomenon, what have you seen?

(I don't really believe in this, because as of now my philosophy is to believe in nothing, just to believe that any thing is possible, so I'm kinda interested, and yeah-I've seen The Matrix

A yogi from siddha yoga (guru mayi chidvilasananda) came to work at our citroën garage and invited me to sat-sang (devotional chanting and meditation). I had an out of body experience during chanting, a kundalini awakenening and visit to the void a couple hours after I got home, and was completely awake to the Spandas three weeks later while on a service retreat. Since that time, 13 years ago, the Spandas has guided me through many realms.
Believe in nothing.. that's kind of tough when you are perceiving something, isn't it?

I just don't understand how anyone can put 100% faith in anything, if I had an out of body experience or I started getting guided by the Spandas, then I might feel differently, but I have never perceived anything that I would put my entire belief in at this point in my life, I just think any thing is possible and try to keep an open mind about everything. But I dont really have any beliefs, as far as spiritually or religiously. Btw, what are spandas? Did i miss something.

The Spanda Karikas - A dynamic reflective interplay of consciousness, 'thou art that', pulsating vibratory forces, the logos.. Basically the entire range of physical, spectral, and narrative links between mind and manifestation, 'I am' and 'I am'.
Real experience is the best thing to build faith on, but usually you won't get an experience to believe in until you are specifically prepared to believe in it first, at first.

No, marriage is backwards and should be abolished, just like slavery (another form of marriage).